Dinosaurs had mammalian body temperatures

@Setanta,

I get a kick out of how the young feller jumps to these conclusions from available evidence.
The conclusion that mammals and dinosaurs share a common ancestor doesnt seem earth shaking today.. I dont understand where he then goes with this.

1 Reply

@farmerman,

Mammals and amoebas share a common ancestor if you go far enough back. To which i say a resounding "So what?"

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@farmerman,

I hate to think of the trouble that a Brachiosaurus
woud have in typing out his poetry.

David

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

theyd just have to learn using voice recognition software instead of typing. Imagine the trubble a T rex would have, what with those teeny weenie little withered up arms?

I always thought that, one day they would really find the right arms that went with a T rex and itd be these big really buff arms with tattoos.

1 Reply

@bewildered,

bewildered wrote:

Is it not strange that dinosaurs are the only kind of reptiles that had mammalian red blood cells and mammalian body temperatures?

Many dinosaurs were not reptiles. The term "Dinosaur" is a generic term which covers many different species and genera. Which particular "Dinosaur" type are your talking about? The Theropods?

1 Reply

@bewildered,

bewildered wrote:

You shared a common ancestor with dinosaurs, so it would not suprise you at all if a reptile could type as you did.

Where are you going with this?

1 Reply

@rosborne979,

Quote:

Where are you going with this?

I think hes going to infer that, because my spelling and that of a dinosaur would be equally bad, we are both doomed for extinction, we are both stupid.

SOmething like that.

1 Reply

@farmerman,

Quote:

Where are you going with this?

farmerman wrote:

I think hes going to infer that, because my spelling and that of a dinosaur would be equally bad,
we are both doomed for extinction, we are both stupid.

SOmething like that.

Long have I suspected that non-fonetic spelling brawt on the Permian Extinction,
giving rise to the dinos in the first place.
I hope that is sufficiently well preserved in the fossil record.

David

0 Replies

@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

theyd just have to learn using voice recognition software instead of typing.
Imagine the trubble a T rex would have, what with those teeny weenie little withered up arms?

I always thought that, one day they would really find the right arms that went with a T rex
and itd be these big really buff arms with tattoos.

Have u heard of the cable show for next season titled: "Pangean Ink" ?

0 Replies

@farmerman,

Get out of the traps of Darwin, and of your own making. No one can help you out if you cling to your own coffin. God will not see you unless you let go of your own self.

1 Reply

@bewildered,

bewildered wrote:

Get out of the traps of Darwin, and of your own making.

What r "the traps of Darwin" ?

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@rosborne979,

bewildered wrote:

Is it not strange that dinosaurs are the only kind of reptiles
that had mammalian red blood cells and mammalian body temperatures?

rosborne979 wrote:

Many dinosaurs were not reptiles. The term "Dinosaur" is a generic term
which covers many different species and genera.
Which particular "Dinosaur" type are your talking about? The Theropods?

I'm under the impression that the criterion
for being a dinosaur was having a hole in the hip.

Is that correct ?

David

2 Replies

@OmSigDAVID,

Im glad you asked because just this year(2011) a dude named STERLING NESBITT has finally taken it up to define what it is to be a dinosaur. He has published a series of what we call synapomorphies, which are common features derived from the earliest form of that group of animals. He came up with a list of these features in the fossil skeleton that, if you take the bus over to the Am Museum of NAt History and buy one, he had them published in the AMNH Bulletin in early 2011 (So its kinda hot off the press) Nesbitt came up with these synapomorphies

Quote:

in the skull, a supratemporal fossa (excavation) is present in front of the supratemporal fenestra

epipophyses present in anterior neck vertebrae (except atlas and axis)

apex of deltopectoral crest (a projection on which the deltopectoral muscles attach) located at or more than 30% down the length of the humerus (upper arm bone)

radius shorter than 80% of humerus length

fourth trochanter (projection where the caudofemoralis muscle attaches) on the femur (thigh bone) is a sharp flange

fourth trochanter asymmetrical, with distal margin forming a steeper angle to the shaft

on the astragalus and calcaneum the proximal articular facet for fibula occupies less than 30% of the transverse width of the element

exocciptials (bones at the back of the skull) do not meet along the midline on the floor of the endocranial cavity

proximal articular surfaces of the ischium with the ilium and the pubis separated by a large concave surface

cnemial crest on the tibia (shinbone) arcs anterolaterally

distinct proximodistally oriented ridge present on the posterior face of the distal end of the tibia

You have all these, youre a dinosaur.He found a bunch more but discounted them as being too widely present in several major reptilian families so as not to be unique to the fossil ancestore of all dinosaurs. Nsbitt then went out and had published a comprehensive list of all species that are so included in the rubric of "Dinosaur"
Hes included about 1300 species. Im sure theres a list available for purchase over there at the Musuem.

Nesbitt has been busy and has also been making a giant master list of paleobiology (Someone had to do this eventually as its been getting kind of messy when several fossils are beginning to overlap in their definitions and guys who do actual exploration work need some sense of uniformity)

And you though that geologists were just colorless non hip kinda people. Nsbitt is our go-to party guy

1 Reply

@farmerman,

Great! That 's my FAVORITE Museum.

What about the hole in the hip ??

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

perhaps you are referring to the separations of the ischium, illium and pubis with the large concavity? Thats sort of a hole.

If you find the Nesbitt pubs. find out if they are on line for purchase. I wanna have that list of dinosaurs available to use in an upcoming seminar series

2 Replies

@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

I wanna have that list of dinosaurs available to use in an upcoming seminar series

U r teaching vertebrate paleontology ?

1 Reply

@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

perhaps you are referring to the separations of the ischium, illium and pubis with the large concavity? Thats sort of a hole.

If you find the Nesbitt pubs. find out if they are on line for purchase. I wanna have that list of dinosaurs available to use in an upcoming seminar series

From AMNH:
http://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/expeditions/treasure_fossil/Fossils/Nodes/node-d1hole-hip.html

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

heavens no. I view paleontology as a necessary evil. It is a craft likening to stamp collecting. However we use several "Index" fossils (fossil species with short time duration but with a wide geographic range) as tools in exploration. Nesbitts list is just going to be a means of QA for students who have included some facets of paleo in their own research.

1 Reply

@farmerman,

What is the relevance to stamp collecting ?

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@OmSigDAVID,

The "hole in the hip socket" is the fusing of the three bones of the "Hip". In bird hipped dinosaurs )Ornithischians), its a hole. in the lizard hipped dinosaurs, (saurischians) its a reduced concavity. I guess Nesbitt went ofr the least of the commonalities and didnt use the word "hole"

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Stamp collecting is a phrase that many scientists, more associated with quantitative methods of study, look down (lovingly) on the guys that do taxonomy and classification. Its like collecting feathers or stamps or orchids. Its a collecting urge with the benefit of a PhD.

I need paleos when we get in the field looking for such things as stratigraphic associated mineralization. Its a craft that is necessary for locating and defining the extents of many economic minerals (liquid and solid)

0 Replies

Dinosaurs had mammalian body temperatures

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