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Battle over San Francisco ballot measure to ban Circumcision

 
 
Reply Fri 17 Jun, 2011 09:43 am
This is another wacko attempt to control penises. Circumcision should be determined the parent's and their physician. Both males and females penis defender's opinions are welcome. ---BBB

June 17, 2011
Battle over S.F. ballot measure to ban circumcision
By Jennifer Garza
[email protected]
Jun. 17, 2011

A San Francisco ballot measure to ban circumcision is spurring charges of anti-Semitism while galvanizing faith leaders and politicians who believe the initiative threatens religious freedom.

"It's almost unbelievable that this made the ballot," said Rabbi Reuven Taff of Mosaic Law Congregation in Sacramento. "It's discriminatory. Not only against Jewish families but also against Muslims and anybody else who has a strong tradition of circumcising their male children."

The initiative, which qualified for the San Francisco ballot in May, has drawn national attention. The measure would make circumcision illegal for boys under 18. Violators could face a year in jail or a fine of $1,000, or both.

If approved, it would become the first of its kind in the country.

Circumcision, removing the male foreskin, has biblical roots, and many believe it is commanded by God explicitly in a covenant with Abraham.

Supporters of the bill call circumcision "male genital mutilation" and say the argument that it is traditional does not mean circumcision is right.

The initiative allows for a medical exclusion, but not a religious exception.

"What it boils down to is this: People are removing healthy body parts from an unconsenting child," said Lloyd Schofield, the main proponent of the measure called the "San Francisco MGM Bill."

"Just because something has been done repeatedly doesn't make it moral or ethical," he said.

Schofield, who declines to say if he is circumcised, denies allegations that the bill is anti-Semitic.

"That just takes the focus away from what they are doing," Schofield said of the anti-Semitism charges.

Few outside San Francisco, the city that banned the McDonald's Happy Meal, noticed the measure until organizers announced that they had gathered the necessary 7,100 signatures to qualify for the November ballot.

"Everything goofy comes out of San Francisco. A lot of people didn't take it seriously," said Sacramento physician Jeffery Rabinovitz, who also is a mohel, or person qualified to perform the rite of circumcision. "But they do now."

Since then, opposition to the bill has been wide-ranging and interfaith.

This week, U.S. Rep. Brad Sherman, a San Fernando Valley Democrat, announced he will introduce a bill to prevent cities from banning male circumcision, and Assemblyman Mike Gatto, D-Los Angeles, reportedly will introduce similar state legislation.

The National Association of Evangelicals, which represents 45,000 churches, also opposes the bill.

"Jews, Muslims and Christians all trace our spiritual heritage back to Abraham. Biblical circumcision begins with Abraham," Leith Anderson, president of the Christian organization, said last week in a statement. "No American government should restrict this historic tradition. Essential religious liberties are at stake."

Supporters, who call themselves "intactivists," said allegations of being anti-religious or critical of one particular religion are not true.

Circumcision rates have been declining in the United States for the past several years. Today about half of all boys born in hospitals are circumcised, according to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Medical groups have said the practice is not harmful and the decision should be left to the parents. The American Academy of Pediatrics is expected to release a report on circumcision this year. Studies have also shown that circumcision helps reduce HIV rates among some groups.

Much of the controversy around the San Francisco measure centers on a comic called "Foreskin Man," drawn by Matthew Hess, one of the proponents of the bill.

The comic, on the main MGM (male genital mutilation) website, features a blond "superhero" battling a demonic looking "Monster Mohel."

"To me this is blatant anti-Semitisim, something you would see in Nazi Germany," said Rabbi Taff.

Hess, who resides in San Diego, said no one complained about a similar cartoon he drew of a doctor performing a circumcision.

"I'm not attacking Jews; I'm attacking one thing they do," Hess said.

Hess, now 42, was circumcised as an infant. He noticed a significant decline in sexual sensation when he was in his 20s, which he attributed to his circumcision.

He said he is glad his comic has gotten attention.

"It's doing what it was designed to do – getting people to talk about it."

He said no other cities have plans for similar bans though he has received inquiries from people interested in supporting such measures.

Rabbi Nancy Wechsler-Azen of Congregation Beth Shalom in Carmichael said she received a call from a concerned Catholic this week.

"Jews believe it is divinely mandated," she said. "But this doesn't only affect Jews, and I think people realize this."

Read more: http://www.sacbee.com/2011/06/17/3707492/battle-over-sf-ballot-measure.html#ixzz1PY3nq0V5
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jun, 2011 10:15 am
@BumbleBeeBoogie,
I think proponents of the bill would say that it's an attempt to liberate penises, not control them. The parents are doing the controlling, the baby has no say in the matter.

As a consciousness-raising stunt, it makes sense. I see the point of making circumcision less of a default, since there aren't that many positives (most of the positives are self-perpetuating in the sense of "so he'll fit in") and some real negatives. (I am very, very glad I didn't have to make the circumcision decision since my baby was a girl.)

As a bill, it's silly.

I don't think it's anti-semitic though.
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Reply Fri 17 Jun, 2011 10:31 am

Its healthier, to avoid infections.
I woud not wanna look the other way.





David
patiodog
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jun, 2011 10:37 am
@BumbleBeeBoogie,
Not to conflate the two, but I think it bears asking -- how does everyone feel about mutilation of girls' genitalia (euphemistically called female circumcision) in places where such is practiced as a cultural tradition? Should that be banned or should it be protected?
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jun, 2011 10:38 am
I remember when Mo was little and his mom asked me to pay for his circumcision (it wasn't covered by the state insurance program). I didn't really want to because I thought it was unnecessary so I did some research and talked to some men about it. I learned that the uncircumcised guys really caught a lot of flack about it in gym class, etc. Some men who were uncircumcised wish they had been. I've read several accounts of adult men deciding to be circumcised.

I ended up giving mOther a couple of hundred bucks and telling her what she decided to do with it was her business. I knew they were completely broke and I thought that affording some other things would for sure turn out to be more important. She spent the money getting him circumcised. Obviously it is very important to some people.

I think it's a lot less common now and whatever "stigma" that might have been attached to not being circumcised is starting to wane.

JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jun, 2011 10:55 am
@BumbleBeeBoogie,
Quote:
"Jews believe it is divinely mandated," she said. "But this doesn't only affect Jews, and I think people realize this."


As soon as you hear "divinely mandated" you gotta know that there's gotta be a large measure of falsehood involved. It doesn't affect Jews at all, nor does it affect Catholics. It affects male babies.

It's a crime in the US to perform female circumsion, is it not?
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jun, 2011 11:38 am
@BumbleBeeBoogie,
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:

This is another wacko attempt to control penises.

Another? Just how many wacko attempts to control penises are there?
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  2  
Reply Fri 17 Jun, 2011 12:06 pm
@JTT,
There is a big difference between males and females. Male circumcision does not impede any of it's sexual functions and sensations. The removal of female genitalia removes the ability to have a sexual organism or any sexual sensations due to the removal of the clitoris.

The purpose in some cultures is to allow the male to enjoy sexual sensation while the female does not for the purpose of keeping the female for himself.

BBB
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jun, 2011 12:15 pm
@BumbleBeeBoogie,
I agree - the difference between the male/female arguement is the control factor.

If religious freedom is allowed and a procedure is not harmful, then it should be the choose of the parents.
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jun, 2011 12:32 pm
@Linkat,
The "not harmful" part is at least controversial.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jun, 2011 12:35 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
Its healthier, to avoid infections.
to include AIDS according to some studies.
Linkat
 
  2  
Reply Fri 17 Jun, 2011 12:38 pm
@sozobe,
Controversal - yes, why you cannot take some one rights away.

Abortion is controversal is a similar way - why there is a choice
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jun, 2011 12:42 pm
Didn't I hear it before? A big issue over a little tissue.
0 Replies
 
contrex
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jun, 2011 12:53 pm
@joefromchicago,
joefromchicago wrote:

Another? Just how many wacko attempts to control penises are there?


Penises can get unruly. When I was a teenager I remember I had to take mine in hand plenty of times.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jun, 2011 01:04 pm
@Linkat,
The big question, though, is WHOSE choice?

The person being affected here is the baby. So the parents are making the choice FOR him.

And many adults are upset that they didn't have the ability to make that choice for themselves.

Again, I'm not in favor of the bill. But it's not as simple as "circumcisions aren't harmful to anyone." Many people consider them harmful, and the science is not really clear, pro or con. (Decreased sensitivity is the main harm that is discussed.)
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jun, 2011 01:08 pm
@sozobe,
Similar to abortion - the fetus also does not have a choice. But the parent does.

Since both these circumstances are controversal and may or may not cause harm (obviously abortion causes harm to fetus - but question whether fetus is considered a human life and thus if it causes harm to a human) and decision is made by a parent or outside of the actual being impacted, it is a difficult thing to regulate or have a law opposing it.
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jun, 2011 01:15 pm
@Linkat,
Well, I think that makes it a lot different from abortion actually.

I don't think that parents should have the right to kill their baby -- a live, already-born, living-outside-the-womb baby like the kind who would be getting circumcised. I don't have a problem with a law making it illegal for parents to kill those babies.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jun, 2011 01:26 pm
Certainly, the situation in Germany is different:
abstract from Schreiber M; Schott G E; Rascher W; Bender A W: Legal aspects of ritual circumcision, Klinische Pädiatrie 2009;221(7):409-14:
Quote:
Female circumcision (genital mutilation) is a criminal violation of human rights under German law. Even with consent of the person to be circumcised and/or her legal representative this procedure must not be carried out since a consent to female circumcision is unethical and therefore void. As much consent as there is on female circumcision the legal situation with ritual male circumcision is very unclear. In practice and unnoticed by the public male circumcision is carried out - be it for medical or ritual reasons - without deeper-going reflexions on the clearness of the medical indication or the legal situation with ritual circumcision. From the medical aspect there are big differences between female and male circumcision but also certain parallels. Various reasons, partly founded in prejudice and misinformation, make people refrain from regarding circumcision of boys also as illegal. Contrary to the prevailing opinion male circumcision also represents a bodily harm which a doctor can only carry out after a preoperative interview and with the consent of the affected person. Since ritual male circumcision does not serve the wellbeing of a child it is not possible for the parents to give their consent to the circumcision in lieu of the child. Male circumcision is only permitted if the child has given his consent and is thus only legally permitted if the child has reached an age at which he is mature enough to understand the meaning and extent of such an action which is hardly the case before he has completed his 16 (th) year.


With me, it had to be done when I was a young adult, for medical reasons. (My father, a physician himself, wanted it be done earlier - but I opposed.)
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jun, 2011 01:36 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
With me, it had to be done when I was a young adult, for medical reasons.
Had to be?? Do tell, as I have never heard that " had to" was even possible.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jun, 2011 01:37 pm
@hawkeye10,
Phimosis resp. para-phimosis.
 

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