4
   

Obama's Ties To The Christian Brotherhood

 
 
Renaldo Dubois
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2011 02:32 pm
@JTT,
Oh yeah, for sure. I love mass murder and can't wait until the next day to do some more. I eat babies and hoist them up on my spear. Yup, yup.

You're sick.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2011 02:37 pm
@ehBeth,
I think you did, but let's put that aside.

Obviously, I am predicting that if a Muslim Brotherhood candidate runs ( despite the prior MB assurance that they would not field a candidate), he will win.

You seem to scoff at such a prediction,and if so perhaps you will want to wager as I've suggested. If not, that's fine.
Renaldo Dubois
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2011 02:43 pm
@JTT,
You want murder and war crimes? Lookie here.
http://www.france24.com/en/20110614-syrian-army-pursues-scorched-earth-campaign-borders-iraq-turkey-assad
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2011 03:52 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Obviously, I am predicting that if a Muslim Brotherhood candidate runs ( despite the prior MB assurance that they would not field a candidate), he will win.

You seem to scoff at such a prediction,and if so perhaps you will want to wager as I've suggested. If not, that's fine.


this was my post (I had to go back and re-read it myself)

ehBeth wrote:

Renaldo Dubois wrote:
The Brotherhood is the largest opposition group in Egypt


The Brotherhood is not a solid bloc.

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2011/06/as-military-and-muslim-brotherhood-dig-in-egypts-revolution-pushes-on/239684/2/

I have a number of friends from Egypt who travel there regularly. They were visiting family during the Tahrir square days. David was a neighbourhood patroller during the revolution. They confirm that things are still in flux, that it will be some time before things settle down politically.

They believe that the youth in Egypt will be the ones who determine what the political face of the country will be like over the next decades.

lots of political groups in the mix there already. the current list is likely not the final list.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_Egypt


I'm not picking up the scoffing other than at the idea that the Muslim Brotherhood is a solid bloc. It's like suggesting any political group is a solid bloc. <shrug> I don't see it.

My other post to the point of your offer to wager was a listing of the current political parties in Egypt.

I'm going to an event this weekend with some friends from Egypt - one of the performers was on the 'wrong' side with Mubarek. I'm curious to see/hear how that will work out. There are promises/threats of shoe throwing and pamphleteering.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2011 04:59 pm
@Renaldo Dubois,
You want to see war crimes, Ren.

Quote:


Finding justice for Vietnamese victims of Agent Orange

Let’s recall and reflect on what happened on that day of 10th August 1961, and the consequences, so horrific, it is difficult to grasp, to understand. It raises in the minds of many the questions: WHY? And what can be done to overcome the criminal legacy of Agent Orange?

When the first planes took off from their base in South Vietnam on that fateful day, with its cargo of Agent Orange that was itself contaminated with Dioxin the world’s most poisonous substance, and to begin the first spraying that was to continue for ten long years, none of the pilots or their crews were to know that they had set out on a mission that was to be repeated by others time and again resulting in the deaths of thousands of innocent unborn babies, further, their actions were to cause the early deaths of many more thousands of innocent children, denying them their human rights, a right never to reach beyond their teenage years.

The results of the use of Agent Orange/Dioxin over those years have travelled down the years with devastating results; for the magnificent forests on which the chemical was sprayed, for the people living and fighting for their country’s independence within the forests, the animal life, insects, all so vital for any forest.

For the people going about their daily lives in the fields outside the cities growing their crops, and tending to their animals, they too were to become victims of Agent Orange as were the children walking to school and who later, on returning home, were to help their parents in the fields. As the spaying continued, so the soil itself became poisoned as did the food being grown…..As did the fish in the rivers and lakes.

It was to take just a few months before the true horrors of the use of Agent Orange came to be seen with the still-born and abnormal births that have to be seen to be believed. Those that survived the birth had various illnesses, deformities, such was the nature of their deformities, it can be said it was a blessing they soon died.

In my first visit to Vietnam in March 1989, I was to see at the Hoa Binh Peace Village in Tu Du Hospital the jars containing the foetuses of the stillborn that died in their mother’s womb and those that died soon after their birth. It is a sight that remains with me to this very day.

http://www.saigon-gpdaily.com.vn/National/2011/6/93525/



0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2011 05:01 pm
@Renaldo Dubois,
You want to see war crimes, Renaldo.

Quote:
Chemical Warfare

As the United States is the most advanced industrial nation in world it was able to make full use of the latest developments in technology in its war against North Vietnam. B-52 bombers, that could fly at heights that prevented them being seen or heard, dropped 8 million tons of bombs on Vietnam between 1965 and 1973. This was over three times the amount of bombs dropped throughout the whole of the Second World War and worked out at approximately 300 tons for every man, woman and child living in Vietnam.

As well as explosive bombs the United States Air Force dropped a considerable number of incendiary devices. The most infamous of these was napalm, a mixture of petrol and a chemical thickner which produces a tough sticky gel that attaches itself to the skin. The igniting agent, white phosphorus, continues burning for a considerable amount of time. A reported three quarters of all napalm victims in Vietnam were burned through to the muscle and bone (fifth degree burns). The pain caused by the burning is so traumatic that it often causes death.

The US also made considerable use of anti-personnel bombs. The pineapple bomb was made up of 250 metal pellets inside a small canister. Gloria Emerson, a reporter in Vietnam, witnessed their use: "An American plane could drop a thousand pineapples over an area the size of four football fields. In a single air strike two hundred and fifty thousand pellets were spewed in a horizontal pattern over the land below, hitting everything on the ground."

The United States also experimented with the use of plastic rather than metal needles and pellets in their antipersonnel bombs. The advantage of plastic was they could not be identified by X-Ray machines. Dropped on highly populated areas, antipersonnel bombs could severely disrupt the functioning of North Vietnam. It has been claimed that the major objective of the US bombing raids on North Vietnam was not to kill its 17 million population but to maim them. As was pointed out at the time, serious injury is more disruptive than death as people have to be employed to look after the injured where they only have to bury the dead.

One of the major problems of the US forces was the detection of the National Liberation Front hiding in the forests of Vietnam. In 1962, President John F. Kennedy approved Operation Ranch Hand. This involved the spraying of chemicals from the air in an attempt to destroy the National Liberation Front hiding places. In 1969 alone, Operation Ranch Hand destroyed 1,034,300 hectares of forest. Agent Orange, the chemical used in this defoliation programme not only destroyed trees but caused chromosomal damage in people.

Chemicals were also sprayed on crops. Between 1962 and 1969, 688,000 agricultural acres were sprayed with a chemical called Agent Blue. The aim of this exercise was to deny food to the NLF. However, research suggests that it was the civilian population who suffered most from the poor rice harvests that followed the spraying.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/VNchemical.htm


0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2011 05:19 pm
@Renaldo Dubois,
Quote:
I love mass murder and can't wait until the next day to do some more. I eat babies and hoist them up on my spear.


This type of nonsense is common among folks like you, Renaldo. It's just another cheap diversion aimed at avoiding the real important issues.

Though you obviously don't eat babies, you do support mass murder and the use of chemical weapons.

Quote:

The Story of Agent Orange

...

RAINBOW HERBICIDES

The various chemicals were labeled by color-coded stripes on the barrels, an arsenal of herbicides known by the colors of the rainbow, including Agent Blue (which contained arsenic), Agent White, Agent Purple, and the lethal combination of 2,4-D and 2,4,5-T, Agent Orange.

On January 13, 1962, three U.S. Air Force C-123s left Tan Son Nhut airfield to begin Operation Hades (later called Operation Ranch Hand), the defoliation of portions of South Vietnam's heavily forested countryside in which Viet Cong guerrillas could easily hide. By September, 1962, the spraying program had intensified, despite an early lack of success, as U.S. officials targeted the Ca Mau Peninsula, a scene of heavy communist activity. Ranch Hand aircraft sprayed more than 9,000 acres of mangrove forests there, defoliating approximately 95 percent of the targeted area. That mission was deemed a success and full approval was given for continuation of Operation Ranch Hand as the U.S. stepped up its involvement in Vietnam.

SIX TO TWENTY-FIVE TIMES
STRONGER THAN RECOMMENDED

Over the next nine years, an estimated 12 million gallons of Agent Orange were sprayed throughout Vietnam. The U.S. military command in Vietnam insisted publicly the defoliation program was militarily successful and had little adverse impact on the economy of the villagers who came into contact with it.

Although the herbicides were widely used in the United States, they usually were heavily diluted with water or oil. In Vietnam, military applications were sprayed at the rate of three gallons per acre and contained approximately 12 pounds of 2,4-D and 13.8 pounds of 2,3,5-T.

The military sprayed herbicides in Vietnam six to 25 times the rate suggested by the manufacturer.

In 1962, 15,000 gallons of herbicide were sprayed throughout Vietnam. The following year that amount nearly quadrupled, as 59,000 gallons of chemicals were poured into the forests and streams. The amounts increased significantly after that: 175,000 gallons in 1964, 621,000 gallons in 1965 and 2.28 million gallons in 1966.

The pilots who flew these missions became so proficient at their jobs that it would take only a few minutes after reaching their target areas to dump their 1,000-gallon loads before turning for home. Flying over portions of South Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia that had been sprayed, the pilots could see the effects of their work. Many of them adopted a grim fatalism about the job. Over the door of the ready room for Ranch Hand pilots at Tan Son Nhut Airport near Saigon hung this sign: "Only You Can Prevent Forests."

MAKERS KNEW OF DANGER TO HUMANS

Unknown to the tens of thousands of American soldiers and Vietnamese civilians who were living, eating and bathing in a virtual omnipresent mist of the rainbow herbicides, the makers of these chemicals were well aware of their long-term toxic effects, but sought to suppress the information from the government and the public, fearing negative backlash.

Of particular concern to the chemical companies was Agent Orange, which contained dioxin. Publicly, the chemical companies said dioxin occurred naturally in the environment and was not harmful to humans.

Privately, they knew otherwise.

A February 22, 1965 Dow Chemical Corporation internal memorandum provided a summary of a meeting in which 13 executives discussed the potential hazards of dioxin in 2,4,5-T. Following that meeting, Dow officials decided to meet with other makers of the chemical and formulate a stance on Agent Orange and dioxin.

In March 1965, Dow official V.K. Rowe convened a meeting of executives of Monsanto, Hooker Chemical, which operated the Love Canal dump, Diamond Alkali, the forerunner of Diamond-Shamrock, and the Hercules Powder Co., which later became Hercules, Inc.

According to documents uncovered only years later, the purpose of this meeting was "to discuss the toxicological problems caused by the presence of certain highly toxic impurities" in samples of 2,4,5-T. The primary "highly toxic impurity" was 2,3,7,8 TCDD, one of 75 dioxin compounds.

CONCERN OVER DIOXINS KEPT QUIET

Three months later, Rowe sent a memo to Ross Mulholland, a manager with Dow in Canada, informing him that dioxin "is exceptionally toxic, it has a tremendous potential for producing chloracne (a skin disorder similar to acne) and systemic injury." Rowe ordered Mulholland in a postscript to the letter that "Under no circumstances may this letter be reproduced, shown or sent to anyone outside of Dow." Among those in attendance at one of the meetings of chemical company officials was John Frawley, a toxicologist for Hercules, Inc. In an internal memorandum for Hercules officials, Frawley wrote in 1965 that Dow was concerned the government might learn of a Dow study showing that dioxin caused severe liver damage in rabbits. Dow was concerned, according to Frawley, that "the whole industry will suffer." Frawley said he came away from the meeting with the feeling that "Dow was extremely frightened that this situation might explode" and lead to government restrictions.

The concern over dioxins was kept quiet and largely out of the public view. The U.S. government and the chemical companies presented a united front on the issue of defoliation, claiming it was militarily necessary to deprive the Viet Cong of hiding places and food sources and that it caused no adverse economic or health effects to those who came into contact with the rainbow herbicides, particularly Agent Orange.

AIR FORCE KNEW OF HEALTH DANGER

But, scientists involved in Operation Ranch Hand and documents uncovered recently in the National Archives present a somewhat different picture. There are strong indications that not only were military officials aware as early as 1967 of the limited effectiveness of chemical defoliation, they knew of potential long-term health risks of frequent spraying and sought to keep that information from the public by managing news reports.

Dr. James Clary was an Air Force scientist in Vietnam who helped write the history of Operation Ranch Hand. Clary says the Air Force knew Agent Orange was far more hazardous to the health of humans than anyone would admit at the time.

"When we (military scientists) initiated the herbicide program in the 1960s," Clary wrote in a 1988 letter to a member of Congress investigating Agent Orange, "we were aware of the potential for damage due to dioxin contamination in the herbicide. We were even aware that the `military' formulation had a higher dioxin concentration than the `civilian' version, due to the lower cost and speed of manufacture. However, because the material was to be used on the `enemy,' none of us were overly concerned. We never considered a scenario in which our own personnel would become contaminated with the herbicide. And, if we had, we would have expected our own government to give assistance to veterans so contaminated."

MILITARY DOWNPLAYS USE OF HERBICIDES

Aware of the concern over the use of herbicides in Vietnam, particularly the use of Agent Orange, the U.S. Military Assistance Command, Vietnam (MACV), attempted to put the proper public relations spin on information concerning Operation Ranch Hand by announcing a "revision" in its policy on the use of herbicides.

It was not so much a revision of the policy as it was an appearance of a revision of the policy as it was an appearance of revision, as is evident in a memorandum signed by Gen. R.W. Komer, deputy to Gen. William Westmoreland for civil operations and RD support (CORDS).

"The purpose of this exercise would be to meet criticisms of excessive use of defoliants by clarifying that they will no longer be used in large areas, while in reality not restricting our use of defoliants (since they are not now normally used in this area anyway). In addition, there would be an escape clause . . . which would permit the use of defoliants even in the prohibited area provided that a strong case could be made to MACV/JGS.

"Appearing to restrict the use of defoliants in this manner would (a) help meet US and Vietnamese criticism of these operations; (b) increase peasant confidence so that they would grow more rice; (c) be of psywar (psychological warfare) value by suggesting that large areas were sufficiently pacified by now that large scale defoliants use was no longer necessary."

But the idea that the spraying of herbicides could be confined to a limited area as suggested in this memo was known to be futile as early as 1962.

http://www.usvetdsp.com/agentorange.htm


Renaldo Dubois
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2011 05:31 pm
@JTT,
Are you an American?
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2011 06:28 pm
@Renaldo Dubois,
Yet another cheap diversion aimed at avoiding the really important issues, Renaldo.

The US was specifically targeting civilians and their crops. That is a war crime, Renaldo.
Renaldo Dubois
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2011 08:11 pm
@JTT,
Why does that question frighten you?
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2011 08:21 pm
@Renaldo Dubois,
It doesn't. It's simply immaterial.

Why do these facts describing the US's long history of war crimes, mass murder and terrorism so frighten you?
Renaldo Dubois
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2011 08:59 pm
@JTT,
If you're an American, you should be ashamed of yourself. If you're not an American then it doesn't matter.

How do you think your life would be today if the USA didn't enter WWII? What do you think would have happened?
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2011 11:25 am
@Renaldo Dubois,
Renaldo, you really are a dumb ****. There are many honest Americans, who, unlike you, want no part of a government that engages in terrorism, mass murder and war crimes.

You seem to revel in the fact that your governments have done and continue to do these things. There's no use suggesting that you should be ashamed of yourself because amoral people like you can feel no shame.

Why do these facts describing the US's long history of war crimes, mass murder and terrorism so frighten you?
Renaldo Dubois
 
  0  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2011 11:56 am
@JTT,
I'm not the one who can't answer a simple question. It doesn't make me a "dumb ****" because you can't answer a simple question. Are you drunk?
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2011 12:44 pm
@Renaldo Dubois,
Why do these facts describing the US's long history of war crimes, mass murder and terrorism so frighten you?
Renaldo Dubois
 
  0  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2011 12:46 pm
@JTT,
I can't answer that until you answer my question. I asked first.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2011 12:51 pm
@Renaldo Dubois,
Which of your dumb **** Renaldo questions do you have in mind?
Renaldo Dubois
 
  2  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2011 01:03 pm
@JTT,
The first dumb **** question I asked was "Are you an American"?
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jun, 2011 01:30 pm
@Renaldo Dubois,
Quote:
The first dumb **** question I asked was "Are you an American"?


I answered that one. Your turn.

Why do these facts describing the US's long history of war crimes, mass murder and terrorism so frighten you?

It's somewhat heartening that you at least recognize that your questions are dumb **** ones, Renaldo. Now you just have to recognize that it's you that asks them.

0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Thu 23 Jun, 2011 03:47 am
@JTT,
Quote:
Yup, you're sure some big W writer.
Very Happy You have no idea when to use capital letters do you ? Maybe you can sue your english teachers in North Korea .
0 Replies
 
 

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