Do you find this racist?

@tenderfoot,

Wherever you are from you don't seem to be aware that the term "African-American" was coined by the black community, not the white, and that the latter even had to make a silly shift from using "Afro-American" to "African-American," because of the expressed wishes of the former. I should point out that the term "Afro-American" was also coined by the black community.

I don't have a problem with their preferring a term other than "Negro," since that term carried with it many years of negative association (despite the fact that it too was, at one time, preferred by the black community), I just don't get why "African" was so much more prefferable than "Afro."

In any case, the underlying premise of your sarcasm is that simply making note of a person's skin color can be considered racist. Racist, however, doesn't mean color cognizant.

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Just like a million other people a million times a day, this is way overblown and Naomi should shut her hole and relax.

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identifying someone by their skin color is not racist. We are all different colors. If I need to describe someone, point them out or distinctly identify one person from another, our description of them will include their skin color. thats not racist.

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@shewolfnm,

Amen

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@shewolfnm,

Quote:

identifying someone by their skin color is not racist. We are all different colors. If I need to describe someone, point them out or distinctly identify one person from another, our description of them will include their skin color. thats not racist.

Not even for an advertising campaign for chocolate, shewolf?
You see no problem at all with the connotations between chocolate & a woman of Jamaican or African American descent?
Without prior consultation with the person concerned?
Have you seen any similar advertisements which feature "white" women, on the basis of their colour?

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@joefromchicago,

Quote:

identifying someone by their skin color is not racist. We are all different colors. If I need to describe someone, point them out or distinctly identify one person from another, our description of them will include their skin color. thats not racist.

You know, Joe, I have seen sanctimonious criticisms from US posters here directed at people from other countries about their "racism".
Sometimes (from the perspective of the folk in the countries on the receiving end of the criticism) US posters have been quite wrong, having next to no insight into the cultural context of what they have been criticizing.
Sorry, but that's the way I & quite a few others have seen it in the past.
I might agree with you on this advertisement if the product was called "diva".
But it wasn't.
And the advertisements included her name.
Which left the public to make whatever of the connotation between Campbell & chocolate.
I maintain my view that the advertisement reflected poor judgment on the part of Kraft/Cadbury. It was just plain silly.
And the fact that Kraft immediately withdrew the advertisement after the first adverse comments suggests that they recognized it was a mistake in the UK context, too.
I have absolutely no doubt that if a prominent African American "celebrity" was treated in the same way as Naomi Campbell was, in a US chocolate advertising campaign, that there'd be quite a few more people here upset by it.

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Black people in America coined the term 'chocolate city' for Washington D.C. and a few other cities that have more black than white residents.

That's why I love African-Americans (generally) and their culture. What a sense of humor. It's one of the few things I miss about living in the US- along with the food, nice beaches, and my mother - there's no African-American culture over here.

But if Naomi doesn't want to be compared to chocolate - she shouldn't have to be.

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@msolga,

Quote:

You know, Joe, I have seen sanctimonious criticisms from US posters here directed at people from other countries about their "racism".
Sometimes (from the perspective of the folk in the countries on the receiving end of the criticism) US posters have been quite wrong, having next to no insight into the cultural context of what they have been criticizing.

americans ignorant of the world around them?? You have to be kidding!! *sarcasm*

Quote:

I maintain my view that the advertisement reflected poor judgment on the part of Kraft/Cadbury. It was just plain silly

probably that accounts for why they said that they were going for silly...

Quote:

I have absolutely no doubt that if a prominent African American "celebrity" was treated in the same way as Naomi Campbell was, in a US chocolate advertising campaign, that there'd be quite a few more people here upset by it.

Americans tend to be much more uptight than europeans, so no one would try that here. I suspect that the point Kraft missed is that the UK is more like America than Europe, in this case not in a good way.

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@hawkeye10,

Quote:

I suspect that the point Kraft missed is that the UK is more like America than Europe, in this case not in a good way.

I suspect that the point Kraft stupidly missed is the the UK has many, many women of Jamaican descent. Same as Naomi Campbell.

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@msolga,

Quote:

I suspect that the point Kraft missed is the the UK has many, many women of Jamaican descent. Same as Naomi Campbell.

I would have never pegged the Jamaican's as uptight, the couple that I have known were fun loving stoners.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

I wasn't suggesting that they're "uptight".
I suspect quite a few of them might not necessarily be "fun loving stoners", too.
Maybe they're not so much different to many other UK residents?

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@chai2,

chai2 wrote:

ehBeth wrote:

not so much racist, but I can certainly see Ms. Campbell being peeved.

She came out rather badly in the whole blood diamond scandal. It can't do her image any good to have people reminded of that.

Ahhh....yes, the blood diamond scandal.

Now THAT makes sense.

In the absence of use of a last name,
its hard to see any liability,
tho I have not researched it (nor will I).

David

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@chai2,

Well on the news clips and police evidence, one never see's them describing the person if they are white as Indian American or Italian American or German American, but if he's black they say African American... which to me is saying he's black.

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@msolga,

We've seen similar advertisements for decades, re whites, apparently adulatory.

I'm still taken by ehBeth's insight to the diamond thing. I have trouble thinking of either chocolate or diva as bad words. I do agree with any who posted that Naomi Campbell should have had a chance to ok the ad. And, I'm questioning that she did not.

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@tenderfoot,

tenderfoot wrote:

Well on the news clips and police evidence, one never see's them describing the person if they are white as Indian American
or Italian American or German American, but if he's black they say African American... which to me is saying he's black.

Do u suggest that the police STOP doing that ?

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@tenderfoot,

tenderfoot wrote:

one never see's them describing the person if they are white as Indian American

I should hope not. There's enough trouble out there.

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@msolga,

msolga wrote:

Have you seen any similar advertisements which feature "white" women, on the basis of their colour?

yes

you must not have looked at any fashion mags in the past couple of decades

even some of the early milk moustache ads would be racist, following your reasoning

can't agree with your reaction to this ad at all

1 Reply

@tenderfoot,

tenderfoot wrote:

Well on the news clips and police evidence, one never see's them describing the person if they are white as Indian American or Italian American or German American, but if he's black they say African American... which to me is saying he's black.

An Indian American person is not white.

Either you are referring to (as I mentioned before) a Native American, which is someone who is a member of a tribe or nation, such as Hopi, Apache, Cherokee, Sioux, etc. They are not white. If someone called themselves an Indian American, I might think their ancestors came from India, which is not white either.

My husband is part Native American. He's got more European ancestors, but he definately thinks of himself as Native American. He was born in this country, and feels more kinship with his forefathers that were also born here, for many many generations.

In any event, as has been said by several differnt people, many black people themselves prefer to be called African American. It's their choice.

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@chai2,

chai2 wrote:

An Indian American person is not white.

Either you are referring to (as I mentioned before) a Native American, which is someone who is a member of a tribe or nation, such as Hopi, Apache, Cherokee, Sioux, etc. They are not white. If someone called themselves an Indian American, I might think their ancestors came from India, which is not white either.

My husband is part Native American. He's got more European ancestors, but he definately thinks of himself as Native American. He was born in this country, and feels more kinship with his forefathers that were also born here, for many many generations.

In any event, as has been said by several differnt people, many black people themselves prefer to be called African American. It's their choice.

it is up to them what they call themselves, it is up to me what I call them. As always I am in control of me, if I call people what they want to be called it is either because I agree with them or that I am feeling generous.

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@ehBeth,

Quote:

you must not have looked at any fashion mags in the past couple of decades

And you'd be quite right about that, ehBeth.
I'm not much into fashion magazines.
However the "Bliss" advertisements were posted in public places in the UK.
For a much wider audience.

But anyway, I'm at the point of agreeing to disagree about all this.
I could go on & on, boring myself & the rest of you silly, saying the same things over & over, ad infinitum .... we would still see things from our own perspectives.

There are so many ways that this advertisement could be taken. And has been taken here.

There's the view that it is a comment about "divas".

There's the view that it's to do with the "dirty diamonds" affair & the war crimes trial. Naomi Campbell certainly didn't do much to enhance her image or credibility there, I agree. But I honestly can't see what this would have to do with an advertising campaign for a new variety of chocolate. It wouldn't make me interested in buying the product, which is the purpose of advertising, surely?

Or there's the view that I've taken:
Naomi Campbell + chocolate + "Bliss" = racial stereotyping.

Or any combination of the above, depending on how you read it.

The thing is, the advertisement can & has been interpreted in a number of ways, because it is ambiguous.
And perhaps there is a cultural aspect in the way that we've read it?

For my part, I'm seeing it as what might be construed as potentially offensive to any number of different ethnic minority groups which are now citizens of the (very multicultural) country I live in. I don't think any Australian advertising company would dare introduce some new product onto the market with advertising which contained such potential to offend (by even vague innuendo) via "colour"& ethnicity.
Because there would definitely be a backlash from parts of the community.
We are very sensitive to such things for obvious reasons ... we have a racist history (White Australia policy, etc) & we are still often accused of racism, often not exactly fairly I might add, by others.
(of course, the US, the UK & many other "advanced" countries also have what could be described as a racist, past & present, too. But that's another issue.)
Anyway, that's the cultural perspective that I'm coming from & I suspect that that many of you who have posted here might have been influenced by what's OK (or not) from your cultural perspective.

Finally, if the (UK based) black rights civil rights group, Operation Black Vote, considered this a racist advertisement, then maybe it might be worth considering, at least, that there is more to consider here than just Naomi Campbell?

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