HAS OBAMA ANTAGONIZED, ALIENATED THE JEWISH VOTE ?

Anyhoo, it was wild to see former hot head Benny Netanyahu acquiescing re a Palestinian state. Wow. Times have changed...

Yes, that, but also for supporting the Saudi royal family and staining sacred lands with the physical presence of our young men and women who were preparing to protect Saudi Arabia (and it's oil fields!) against Saddam.

Also for being a ready made target for the poor, the envious, and the fanatical.

Israel wasn't a big enough target for bin Laden, nor did he consider it a "weak horse" that he could attack with impunity. He never could have pulled off 9/11 in Israel, and he knew that any attack he might launch would have resulted in a determined and successful counter response.

He got the same from America (thanks to W) but based on the "weak horse" responses of past presidents like Carter, Clinton and even Reagan, he figured the odds were with him.

Use of the "The Jewish State" is certainly code, and anti-Semitic code at that.

The great enablers of entrenched Palestinian violence are liberal Americans and Europeans, not Israel.

The pro-Israel vote includes possibly 60 million Christian Zionists in the U.S.A. So, being concerned about the "Jewish vote" may be making a tempest in a teapot, since there are nowhere as many Jewish voters in the U.S.A.

Plus, the question that created this thread should also address the born-again Evangelicals that are also pro-Israel (aka, Christian Zionists).

The Jewish vote is not as Jewish as it had been a generation or two ago. Many Jews are either very secular, intermarried, or have the thinking that Israel can survive on its own, without the degree of American support it needed in the past.

Also, in my own opinion, the world-wide liberal left tends to side with the Palestineans might be due to the fact that any new Palestinean state may have to be socialistic (aka, leftist) to survive. Remember, Israel started out a socialist state, and discovered it had the resources to be a capitalistic society.

And, as a secular American Jew, in my opinion, I believe the world-wide liberal left gets its impetus from Europe, and Europe might have a psychological need to not be pro-Israel, since it helps one's conscience to find fault with Jews, and therefore not to have to feel guilty for all the help that was given the Nazis during the Final Solution from many European countries.

In effect, Americans can be pro-Israel, without the psychological ghost of anyone in their country assisting the carrying out of the Final Solution.

No David, you got it backwards. Your opinion is supposed to inform polls, not be shaped by them.

PS: I speak neither for Jews nor evangelical Christians, since I'm not a member of either group.

Oboy's attitude toward the Jewish people is lackluster at best and I do think he will loose a few points of Jewish voters in ever state.

Let's face it, Jews have always had political and economical influence that is disproportionate to their actual numbers. It's how they have survived in a world bound and determined to exterminate them, and it is a reason for the animosity they have faced for centuries.

Evangelicals are, in the main, pro-Israel for religious reasons, but this doesn't mean they don't have an affinity or admiration for Israelis that is separate from Biblical influence.

Secular Leftists would like to suggest that Evangelicals only support Israel because of Biblical prophesies that require the state of Israel to presage the End of Days, and that they actually look forward to the Christ-Killers burning in hell.

Their beliefs may tell them that anyone who doesn't accept Jesus as their savior will not make it to Heaven, but anti-Semitism in America and Europe resides with the Left, not the Right.

Yeah, I agree with Finn.

Pinning the 9/11 attacks on our support of Israel is ridiculous, and I say this as someone who is often critical of Israels behavior and the tacit approval the US give to it.

You show great wisdom Max.

Not so subtle suggestions that Jews were responsible for 9/11 are truly contemptible.

By WHAT reasoning ??

Its NOT the Jewish State ???





David

Nor am I; I speak only upon the basis of my observations and my estimation of the situation.





David

Yep

Yes, its not ????

Bibi hasn't changed, he says he agrees to it only to ease pressure on him (mostly internal, from such ilk as Kadima) but goes out of his way to make sure that the negotiation starting point is completely unacceptable.

There is no nation on earth who agrees with Bibi's current intransigent positon and it's a clear non-starter. Bibi is not currently ready to make any kind of peace.

Please...

Israel is, indeed, a Jewish State, and it's desire to remain so is a fundamental thorn in the insane "peace process."

Why did Israel come to life?

Because a bunch of Eastern Europeans were looking for a place to settle?

Obviously not.

It was formed because a tribe of people who have been the target of true genocidal intentions for centuries, wanted a homeland they could call their own, and in which they might feel safe...at least from the government of the nation in which they lived.

If your very real history tells you that whenever you become a minority you become a primary target, why would you ever accept a national framework thT might result in your becoming a minority?

This is not a case of the boy who called wolf. History will confirm that Jews have been the object of prejudice, insane exaggeration, guttural hatred, and evil intent for centuries.

Liberals love victims and what people have been more notably historical victims than Jews?

Unfortunately, when the righteous victim comes into his own, the Left abandons him. You are only a darling of the Left if you are a victim.

The ultimate victims, Jews, had the temerity to satisfy the underdog mania of the Left, but not remain underdogs.

Why would anyone want to curry favor with the Left? They only care about you when you suffer, and when you achieve the status they claim to have supported, you suddenly become their foe.

This is the intellectual bankruptcy of the Left. Everything is situational. Everything depends upon the current orders delivered by the favored few.

Anyone can use "Jewish State," because that is precisely what Israel wants and needs to be. The "right of return" is really all about demographics, not justice. Allow an influx of fecund Arabs with the same rights as Jews, and before long, Israel will have changed it's name to Palestine, it's citizens will either be leaving, or suffering, and it will be yet another pathetic ME swamp.

All y'all Lefties...try and stick with your victims once they supersede victim status.

But...you can't.

Despicable.

And why should any Israeli give a **** whether or not another nation on earth agrees with Bibi?

Oh yes, Jews have a long experience with the rest of the world coming to their rescue. They need to trust American and European liberals who want to appease Islamists.

Bibi is Israel's leader and he has the support of a majority of Israelis. This is truly significant because all of Israel's enemies don't give a **** what their citizens think. (Hello...Arab Spring!)

We support democracy ... We support Israel.

If the world gets fed up enough they might choose to do something about it. There is a large consensus (even in Israel) that this point has been reached and that they are facing a "diplomatic tsunami" that starts in September.

The UN created Israel and the US has no veto on the general assembly. The Palestinians plan to put the creation of their state up for a vote in September and the world plans to approve it.



One can support Israel without supporting their irredentism.

One can support Israel without supporting their territorial aspirations and their willingness to keep the Palestinians in an indefinite interregnum.

I love Israel, but I think the aspiration for "Greater Israel" (i.e. all the land the world thinks should go to Palestinians) is delusional. They would have to give up their identity as either a Jewish state or a democratic state to achieve that goal.

I support Israel, but I think their territorial aspirations that their zealots hold are bad for them. Israel needs to settle this issue for Israel's sake more than than anyone's.

From Haaretz (26.05.11):
Source

I dissent. If that were true,
then thay 'd want victims of predatory violence to be defensively
armed well enuf to triumph over the perpetrators, be thay man or beast.
That is not what thay want (except for a very tiny minority of the left, like Rep. John Dingell).

Instead, thay want the victims to be HELPLESS
and thay want the perpetrators to have a MONOPOLY of power to safely dominate the victims.



David