What if the CSA won the Civil War

What if pigs could fly?

Sophisticated discussion? Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha . . .

Kid Rock couldn't wrap himself in the Confederate flag while getting an award from a Back civil rights group.

now i'm no racist, and i live in CA, but with allies in the UK and France, while the USA plays Mr. Isolationist, it is entirely possible that the CSA could survive at least through 1919, if not further

There are already a number of threads on the topic.

Perhaps you could find something new to add to one of those threads.

It is hardly conceivable that the south could have won the war militarily. It didn't have the manpower, the political will, or, frankly, the generalship necessary to defeat the north. In the end, the only way that the south could have won was for the north to give up, and the only way that it would have done that would have been for the Democrats to win the presidential election of 1864. Here's that scenario:

June 3, 1864: Ulysses Grant orders one last charge at Cold Harbor and, to encourage his faltering troops, leads the charge himself. He is shot dead. George Meade takes charge of the Virginia theater of operations and immediately orders a "tactical withdrawal" to the Rappahannock.
July 1, 1864: John Bell Hood is struck dead by a bolt of lightning. This is the greatest contribution Hood would ever make to the Confederate war effort. He is, therefore, not available to replace Joe Johnston in command of the rebel forces facing William T. Sherman's army that is marching on Atlanta. Johnston forces Sherman to dig in around Atlanta, and a Petersburg-like siege develops.
August 5, 1864: Shouting "Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!" David Farragut leads his ships into Mobile Bay, where they are all sunk by torpedoes.
November 8, 1864: With Union forces bogged down in Virginia and Georgia, and Confederate commerce raiders emboldened by the unexpected victory at Mobile Bay, voters go to the polls and resoundingly reject Lincoln's call for a renewed push, or "surge," to defeat the rebel states. Democratic president-elect George McLellan immediately issues a call for negotiations with Richmond that would lead to a "two-state solution."
March 4, 1865: In his inaugural address, President McLellan, speaking of the southern states, utters the famous phrase "let those people go!" A cease-fire is announced, and negotiators soon meet in Fredericksburg, Virginia to hammer out the details of a peace accord.

Plebiscites are held in the four slave states that had not seceded. Kentucky votes to join the south in an election that both sides agree is marked by a prodigious amount of fraud. Maryland, Delaware, and Missouri stay with the north. The southern negotiators press for plebiscites in Oklahoma and Kansas, but ultimately trade that for West Virginia, which is returned to Virginia.

(to be continued)

1865: Outstanding issues remain between the CSA and the USA. The largest issue is the fate of thousands of former slaves who fled north during the war, many of them enlisting in the Union armed forces. Southern slaveholders file suit in federal court, demanding a return of their property. In response, unsympathetic northern legislatures, especially in New England, pass laws "nullifying" the Fugitive Slave Act, much to the chagrin of slaveowners in the three border states that remained in the Union. President McLellan sides with the slaveholders, prompting angry cries of "doughface!" during his 1866 State of the Union address to congress.

1866: Congressional elections in the north return large majorities for the Republican Party. Although only a radical wing of the party demands a renewal of war, the majority passes the Thirteenth Amendment abolishing slavery. It is soon ratified by three-quarters of the states and becomes law in 1867. Riots in St. Louis and Baltimore are put down by federal troops under the overall leadership of Lt. Gen. Don Carlos Buell.

1867: In the waning days of his administration, CSA President Jefferson Davis begins negotiations with Spain for the purchase of Cuba. Southern expansionists, having been cut off from the western territories, look greedily at Cuba, Hispaniola, and northeastern Mexico as new lands to satisfy the demographic push of slavery. The issue pits slave-exporting states, such as South Carolina, which favor an aggressive foreign policy, with slave-importing states, such as Arkansas, which favor retrenchment. Military hero James Longstreet is elected president as a compromise candidate: he favors peaceful expansion and continued negotiations with Spain.

1868: McLellan runs for a second term but is trounced in the polls by Republican Benjamin Butler, who runs on a platform of "freedom, liberty, and cheap money!" The postwar depression that paralyzed the country slowly begins to loosen its grip. The south, meanwhile, remains mired in financial doldrums, as its agricultural exports are insufficient to pay for the industrial infrastructure needed for a modernizing economy. President Longstreet introduces his "Great March Forward" program of encouraging industrial progress, but is called a "damned centralizer" by his opponents.

(to be continued)

thanks for the input joe, but think of it like this, 1862: The CSA has won virtually every major battle fought, they march through Maryland, up into Pennsylvania, and don't lose Special Orders 191, pincer move D.C. and win a victory in the North on Lee's terms, say at the Susquehanna River, which would convince Britain and France to recognize Confederate independence, also meaning the Emancipation Proclamation wouldn't have been released, and the CSA able to press the USA into surrender. The USA doesn't get the need to ally with someone, and so, 20 years later gets whupped again by Dixie, this time with the UK and France as well, in part due to a Mormon uprising in Utah. Meanwhile, the Republicans fall out of favor, being replace by, of all groups, Socialists. By WWI, the USA allies with Prussia and the Central Powers, with the CSA remaining with Britain and France as members of the Allies. At this point, the Democrats, with a converted over TR, win the war, but by doing to the CSA what the allies did with Germany, bring the Socialists to power, only to regain it in 1932, due to the depression. With the Democrats back in Power, they end up winning WWII,(starting due to the south invading the USA with their new, Hitler-like leader, except this Holocaust hits African-Americans,oh and President Longstreet banned slavery due to pressure from Britain in 1890) and occupy the CSA, but never allow these states to reapply for US statehood

Hilarious, Joe . . .

I particularly like this line . . .

You forgot the part about the time-travelling mercenaries with AK-47s.

1869: A revolt breaks out in Cuba, and the CSA sends a warship, the CSS Manassas, to Havana harbor to protect Confederate interests. A mysterious explosion destroys the ship, and the southern press blames Spain. The Confederate congress passes a war resolution over the protests of a reluctant President Longstreet. The expeditionary force, under Lt. Gen. Nathan Bedford Forrest, defeats the Spanish colonial forces and occupies the island. Forrest, as military governor, starts rounding up free blacks and forcing them into slavery, declaring that "a black man has no rights that a white man is obliged to respect." At the end of the year, congress unilaterally annexes Cuba.

1870: International sympathy for the CSA evaporates in the wake of the Cuba war, as Britain and France look on in horror at the forced enslavement of previously free blacks. Forrest, replaced by Longstreet as governor with D.H. Hill, returns to the mainland to a hero's welcome. In the US, meanwhile, President Butler's inflationary monetary policies threaten to split the Republican Party into hard-money and soft-money wings.

1871: Jay Gould's attempt to corner the gold market leads to a crash on Wall Street and the north goes into a deep depression. Meanwhile, a company of Virginia militia crosses the Ohio River in pursuit of a group of runaway slaves, and, in the process, burns down a portion of Gallipolis, Ohio. President Butler, eager to divert the nation's attention away from the financial crisis, calls for reparations. Wisely, he insists on being paid in gold rather than in Confederate currency or devalued greenbacks.

(to be continued)

wat are u talking about????