My child swears!

Ok, now that this thread is offically derailed, I'd like to show a video that, from what I can tell, a lot of people make fun of.

BUT, I really really like this song, especially the part about the white taile buck.

While Gino does do a few over-groovidelic moves in this video, and his hair is totally jacked up 80's hair, his mojo is sound.

I wouldn't kick him out of bed for eatin' crackers.

AND....he's Canadian.

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@ehBeth,

There are two things that upset me with what Chai is saying.

First is that her behavior is exactly the opposite of the behavior we expect from our kids. Kids are people. We expect kids to treat other people with a little understanding and respect. Why shouldn't we expect the same of adults?

I teach my kids about being good natured and accepting even when people aren't doing what they want them to do. A little patience goes a long way.

Take the kicking the back of the of the airplane seat example from earlier. If someone kicks the back of Ally's seat, I would want her to speak up, but to do so with respect and understanding and gentle. If she yelled or reciprocated or tried to make the person behind her feel bad (when all that that is needed is a little respectful communication.

Second is that Chai seems unable to see any other point of view. Her rant about what the store wants or even worse what the store manager feels (I know at least one store manager who would take the kid's side) is almost funny.

There is a way that two people can express their feelings that don't involve taking balls away from kids. I wouldn't be proud if Ally was indignant, or bullying or judgmental with a stranger. And I would want Ally to accept that there may be another point of view before she went in looking for absolute capitulation. I want her to express herself, but in a mature way.

There would have been a much better way for Chai to express herself that didn't involve her taking a ball away from a kid.

We want our kids to act like adults, but we understand they don't always act this way. But. why can't adults express themselves in a more adult manner, rather than playing "store cop"?

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@maxdancona,

No, the kid bounced or slammed the ball in her direction, right to her. Finders keepers.

You're the one who is unable to see any other point of view. I agree with Chai, Linkat, Bella, and probably others I forget since I'm not reading this whole thing again.

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

And I would want Ally to accept that there may be another point of view

but you cant?

you cant understand that there are people who DONT agree with that type of behavior? The mere fact that by standers were agreeing with her says volumes about what that child may have been doing. In general people ARE tolerant of a child. But when kids are throwing a ball around so hard it hits someone else, then it becomes play ground behavior and not acceptable in a store and an adult has just as much of a right to speak up about what they need as the kids do.

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@maxdancona,

Please point out to me where I said anything about yelling, raising my voice, etc

In the case of the kid, I did not "take" the ball from him.
He lost control of it, and it rolled up to me. I didn't take one step out of my way. The ball did not belong to him, so it was impossible for me to take it from him.

What I did was pick up a ball that rolled up to me, and said 7 words, quietly enough that someone more than a dozen feet from me couldn't have made out what I said. Now of course you'll assume I was whispering and hissing threats.

I've never gone up to a child who was a stranger and taken anything that belonged to them. Whenever I've taken anything from a child I know, it was something they shouldn't have had. I'm pretty sure whenever I've had to do that, I was in my house, where I get to say what they can have, or in my sisters home, with a niece who was holding something her mother wouldn't have wanted her to have.

I'm not going to argue with you max. You've obviously formed some erroneous opinion of me, like I snarl at children and scream "Get away from me." In fact, I don't like to yell. I have a good voice, and when talking with friends I can get animated and get a boisterous voice, but I don't yell or scream at people. If I raise my voice in anger, it's if I'm having an argument with someone I'm close to, and we've all done that. I'm not going to do that with strangers.

No idea where you got the movie going in your head that I go off on a rant in public, glower or yell at kids, or yank something from their hands. I'm pretty smart max, and I know you keep interjecting these words into what is turning into Your tirade, to get a rise out of me. I'm confident I'm a mature adult, and this isn't going any further on my side.

Frankly max, your're nowhere near worth it.

It was a lot more interesting talking about Gino Vanelli

BTW, this is a copy and paste of what I said I'd do if someone where kicking my chair....

If an adult or a child is kicking the back of my seat at a movie or in an airplane, I'm going to ask them to stop, and that's my right. If an adult or a child is swearing, and it offends me, ditto.

I think that's pretty clear.

.

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Oh wow, that Bobby Sherman was hot! I wish I had known him when I was a teenager - that would have been a major crush attack. He looked like the wholesome cute American boy .....

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@shewolfnm,

Sure I can. We have only heard one side of the story (it would be great if we could hear the kid's side of the story, but we can't). I accept that these kids bothered Chai, and she has every right to say something about it. I only wish she could be respectful.

I can't argue with Chai when she says "It's my business to make sure my best interests are being taken care of". This is what every parent wants to hear from our kids. In fact if everyone just felt this way, the world would surely run smoothly with no problems whatsoever.

Of course that wasn't the real issue. Clearly Chai's real interest was to protect the store's interest. It is nice that she can read the mind of store managers and that she is important enough to speak for stores where she doesn't work. Of course it is her business to ensure that her rules of propriety are followed.

The real thing that bugs me is this.

Quote:

I looked over to the parents when they were in the same aisle as me, and they were oblivious... When the parents check out, they weren't buying any balls, so they were using property that didn't belong to them.

Sure if kids are making noise that bothers you, it is appropriate for you to say something. If you are making noise that is bothering my kids, I would want them to say something.

Sorry, it is none of her business if kids are using balls in a store. And, it is none of her business whether their parents buy them or not. No one appointed her store cop.

Passing judgment on parents after she checked to see they didn't buy a ball their kids played with? Give me a break!

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@maxdancona,

max, sorry, you are the one who has to give people a break.
Kids are not adults they're kids who have to learn rules and one of them is not using a store as playground, regardless if their parents approve or not. It is a store and other people in the store were obviously bothered by these kids.

I have seen kids run up and down the isles of the supermarket and play hide and seek and I told them to stop it. They can play outside or on the playground but not in the supermarket. I don't give a hoot, if their parents lack the necessary skills to teach their children or if they're just progressive and anti-authoritarian, I am a customer in the supermarket and the last thing I want to do, is having to listen to kids screaming up and down the isle. I did not allow my daughter to do so when she was little, and am sure as hell won't tolerate it from others either.

It's not always the kids fault, true, as there are plenty of parents out there that have absolutely no manners themselves, so there is nothing to teach the kids, but sooner or later they'll learn from others - rightfully so!

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@CalamityJane,

I keep saying that there are two sides to this story.

Sure, there is behavior in kids that isn't acceptable from kids in a store. I don't mind hearing kids being kids, but of course there are things kids do that bother me as a customer.

But my point is that there is another side.

There is also behavior in adults that isn't acceptable. Adults who are intolerant of kids being kids in a reasonable way are out of line even in a store. And, I find the habit of adults looking around to pass judgment on parents to be particularly distasteful. I don't care at all what you allowed your daughter to do when she was little and I don't care whether you will "tolerate it" or not. I do my best to be a good parent, but why should I care if some stranger in the supermarket thinks I have "manners".

When adults are intolerant, judgmental and rude, whose fault is it?

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@maxdancona,

Yeah Jane, Bobby Sherman wasn't a favorite of mine when he was singing, but I liked him on this show called "Here Comes the Brides"
There were 3 brothers (David Soul & Robert Brown), he was the youngest one, the little brother.

They lived in a logging camp up in Seattle, all men. They all got the clever idea to advertise for brides, making it seem like a wonderful town, and a bunch of gals show up and are surprised to find a muddy old town.

Bobby Shermans girl's name was Candy.

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@maxdancona,

I don't pass judgement, max, there is a common consensus about manners
and I expect everyone to abide by it - most often kids have not been taught manners because of their parents utter lack of knowledge of manners. That's not distasteful, that's really beneath contempt.
Everyone cares and appreciates if someone whose space you share in a common place like a supermarket or store, is well behaved. You might not
care, but customers don't have to tolerate bad behavior - that's where you
are wrong.

If your brats don't know how to behave, I do not have to tolerate it and I will make sure that the kids receive the necessary boundaries, even though you
as parent don't know them. No one has to deal with spoiled brats just because they have incompetent parents, who call others pricks.

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@CalamityJane,

Quote:

there is a common consensus about manners
and I expect everyone to abide by it - most often kids have not been taught manners because of their parents utter lack of knowledge of manners.

Do you see the contradiction here?

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@chai2,

I don't know that show either....the older brother looked nice too!

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

Sure I can. We have only heard one side of the story (it would be great if we could hear the kid's side of the story, but we can't). I accept that these kids bothered Chai, and she has every right to say something about it. I only wish she could be respectful.

I can't argue with Chai when she says "It's my business to make sure my best interests are being taken care of". This is what every parent wants to hear from our kids. In fact if everyone just felt this way, the world would surely run smoothly with no problems whatsoever.

Of course that wasn't the real issue. Clearly Chai's real interest was to protect the store's interest. It is nice that she can read the mind of store managers and that she is important enough to speak for stores where she doesn't work. Of course it is her business to ensure that her rules of propriety are followed.

The real thing that bugs me is this.

Quote:
I looked over to the parents when they were in the same aisle as me, and they were oblivious... When the parents check out, they weren't buying any balls, so they were using property that didn't belong to them.

Sure if kids are making noise that bothers you, it is appropriate for you to say something. If you are making noise that is bothering my kids, I would want them to say something.

Sorry, it is none of her business if kids are using balls in a store. And, it is none of her business whether their parents buy them or not. No one appointed her store cop.

Passing judgment on parents after she checked to see they didn't buy a ball their kids played with? Give me a break!

excuse me, did you not read my post previous to this one?

you're really working overtime on the trying to jerk someone's chain project, aren't you?

unfortunatley, when you change around what was said/not said, you're the one who looks foolish.

You're just boring me now, you're going on ignore so I don't have to look at you determined quest to not pay attention to what is in typed in front of you, and looking assinine. It'd be one thing if you were actually repeating what I said, but your just morphing it as you go along. I don't say I'm putting you on ignore to "show you", it's simply because you are making no sense.

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@maxdancona,

It's not a contradiction, it's a sad affair, but unfortunately true, that some people weren't taught manners. Nonetheless, there is a common consensus
about manners, just because a few people don't know, doesn't mean we should toss them out the window.

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@CalamityJane,

Yeah, I remember as a kid thinking he was "the old one"
Now, I look at him and think "yeah, if I went for younger men, I'd be interested"

I had no opinion on David Sould, as I never particularly cared for blond men (my brother was blond, so I think I mixed up in my mind blond hair on a guy and being brotherly)
Well, the exception to that is Sting.

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@CalamityJane,

I would also point out that Chai's behavior violates my understanding of the "common consensus" of manners. She could have spoken with the kid in away that expressed her feelings while respecting the kid's feelings. That is what I expect from my kids to do when something bothers them. She didn't treat the kid with respect. She didn't consider his feelings.

And worse was the fact the checked to see if the parents bought the ball or not. Her only reason for doing this was to pass judgment on them. This is not how I understand good manners.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

i feel so strange having this conversation, because I do agree with the things you are saying.

But............

I know chai. Pretty well

and i will say that if those parents DID buy that ball? She is the type of person to have apologized if she were wrong and her actions embarrassed, frustrated them or otherwise caused an unnecessary scene. She would stand by her point of not throwing things around in the store, but she would apologize for her actions if she were proven to be absolutely wrong on something like that. But she wasnt. There was no purchase of those balls that were being thrown around the store.

I also know that she is quite tolerant of kids... . Not at all the ogre that story might make her sound like.

So when I defend that point, realize that I know the person behind it and the picture being painted is just not true. It would take A LOT to get her to that point... and I can imagine these kids being WAY out of line and if all she can think of to bring in are other rules to help make the point to the kid is something about store rules and ownership, well.. she will. She will use points like that , real points.. instead of a selfish " I dont wanna hear this ball bounce " statement.

I have run stores. many .
I can easily say that most store owners ARE in fact a bit.. stand off ish about kids and people in general picking stuff up and just randomly using it. In this society, even if we DO open a box to smell something, we will put down the OPEN one, and purchase an unopened one. ( just a behavioral example here..) and guess who eats that cost..

Things like that come into play a lot. Even with toys.

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

I would also point out that Chai's behavior violates my understanding of the "common consensus" of manners. She could have spoken with the kid in away that expressed her feelings while respecting the kid's feelings.

he HIT HER with a ball?

not aimed at you..
but why s our society SO GEARED to worrying about someones 'feelings' ? seriously . If someone hits me with something, the last thing I wanna do is pull up a chair like freaking Dr Phil and talk about feelings. Im going to defend myself and make sure it is known that it wont happen to me again. If my defense of myself hurts ' someones feelings' then they need to toughen up a bit and learn to deal with the many aspects of other people.
the world is not a prozac pill waiting to boost someones self esteem.

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@shewolfnm,

ARE YOU GOING TO BUY THIS BALL?????

http://static.cdn.masjo.com/movie/images/ogre--unrated.jpg

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My child swears!

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