My child swears!

Well Chai, I am happy that there aren't too many people in the world like you. As a parent I find that most people are OK with kids being kids. There are a few grumpy people around, but not too many.

I'm often around other people's kids. They are great. It is pretty rare that this type interference is called for (there is a big difference between draino and a rubber ball). Why not push the ball around with the kid. It would have made the kid happy and may have even made you a little less cranky.

What good is served by your behavior?

I'm glad you're happy max. It's what I live for.

My ex-husband and I separated when our youngest was seven. He immediately began swearing . . . often. I went to the store one day. When I came back, he was in the dining room with his older brother (then 12) and sister (then 14) and one of her classmates.

The older kids were teaching him some "terrible swears" in German. The swears were eins, zwei, drei, fear, funf. They also taught him an obscene French word: chausette. I caught on to what they were doing and told my son that to be really effective, he should open one palm and clench the opposite hand into a fist and slam his fist into his hand when he says funf.

He used those terrible swears for two years until one kid asked him why he counts every time he is angry. By then, the problem was solved. But for two years, he counted or screamed, "socks!" every time he was angry.

i seem to notice that most parents who expect the rest of the world to be 'ok' with their kids antics lack a bit of authority in their kids lives and just wanna smile and say it is all ok.

A little respect for the store, customers and other peoples space is always in order and should be a first concern when out in public.
Yes. Have fun. Check out the toys in the store but there is a time to stop and there is an appropriate way.

Too many people seem to think that they have given birth to the baby jesus and everyone else should notice how cute and lovable they are with no expectations of social graces , behaviors or respect to other people. After all they are just kids so adults desires, comfort and needs should go to the way side right?
i call bullshit.

There are two sides to this, and I have been on both sides. Sure, I have seen kids who I thought were out of control. In my experience this doesn't happen very often. Kids being kids is part of life.

I have also seen uptight adults getting all upset at kids acting like perfectly normal kids. They seem to either expect that kids shouldn't be in public, or that they should be on such a tight leash to prevent anything like fun, exploration or spontaneity.

There is a happy medium (and someone getting upset by a kid bouncing a ball in a store is far from it). My kids aren't perfect, they are kids after all. For the most part they act mature for their age, and occasionally they do something I find unacceptable. We deal with it. I don't take kindly to unwanted "help" or intrusions from boorish strangers.

Sometimes kids are immature. Sometimes adults are immature. Uptight adults who think the world should revolve around them bother me much more than rambunctious kids.

You have kids, right Shewolf? Surely you have felt the urge to strangle an occasional sanctimonious stranger.

I can readily see both sides of the issue on this one.
I think that Shewolf hit the nail on the head when she mentioned respect.
Children need to learn that the world doesn't revolve around them, the sooner the better.

As far as sanctimonious strangers are concerned, aside from threatening behaviors by such, I always did my best to stay out of my daughter's relationships with the world.
I always stood by to protect her from harm, as best I could, but I would never step in to control her relationship with the world and other people.
She learned just fine how to deal with people and situations by experience with her quiet protector close at hand.
It does indeed take a village to raise a child, and those cranky folks are a part of it.

So do some adults.

So very true, at least where I live

Kids being kids is part of your life as a parent. Not everyone elses. And it is just as rude to expect people to happily smile at a child while doing something that is hurting, bothering or even getting in the way of their life . Even if it is as simple as bouncing a ball in a store when it affects peoples ability to hear each other in conversation over purchasing decisions.

Please dont hear me being angry or arguing with you. I actually agree with you quite a bit... BUT.. when it comes to public places, I dont allow jillian to really get too hyper or excited based on the fact that there are quite literally HUNDREDS of people in one store in a day. I can not anticipate nor can I expect them to all be ok with and all be in line with my childs decision to take a loud toy and run around with it.

Just like I expect adults to speak with a minute piece of respect when talking to my child, I expect HER to GIVE that same tid bit of respect and not get too out of line.

I wish that everyone, every day was in that space to be comfortable with and enjoy watching a kid play so that they could have the world at their feet. I really do. I love to play with kids and I love listening to them create these fascinating worlds at the drop of a hat. I wish we lived in a place where I COULD walk into a store, let her go wild and enjoy toys and meet other kids and have fun while I shopped and didnt have to worry about who she may be bothering.

But reality is that I dont.
Reality is that there are people who do not enjoy kids, there are people who do not enjoy loud noises, who are not comfortable with conversations with kids or questions from them.... and there are people I dont WANT her talking to.. And yes there have been times I have stood toe to toe with people over their rudeness to her. I dont back down when i think someone is being overly angry with her.

But what it comes down to is that out of every one in the store, why should one person who may have a migraine ( for example) have to deal with MY child banging a toy around the store while they are shopping for medicine to help them?
Why should an elderly woman ( or man) have to jump to a stop in their labored walk because MY child is running around ?

Why should MY child be responsible for , or dismissing of other people in the store?
She needs to learn how to deal with EVERYONE, not just trample around in the world expecting people to smile and wave just because she is short. She needs to learn consideration for others and ....frankly... if she wants to play and have fun, that is what outside is for.

I hear you, i agree with you, but on this point I think we have to agree to disagree. I firmly believe that we ( adults and kids) need to remain aware of others space as well as our own and not assume that what we are doing is ok to everyone else around us.





To you.
But not to the sick people with headaches.
Not to the parents who may have lost their children
not to people who are hard of hearing and are trying to shop
not to the store owner who has to go back and clean all of that up, or write that ball off because it got scuffed and in this society, no one wants anything with any kind of marks on it ( we seem to be weird that way.)
not to the other kids who are not allowed to behave that way
not to the teller who has to hear that ball being bounced by hundreds of kids every single day
not to the store clerk who has to replace all those toys that are taken off the shelves by children and replaced all over the store.
Not to the person who was almost hit by the ball because someone lost their grip
( etc .. etc)

Remember, other people come from other view points. We have to think of all and not just ourselves.

Ohhhhh yeah! I know a few of those myself. I even have a couple in my family.
They expect everyone to drop and run just because of something that is going on with them. It is sad..yet sometimes amusing.

I'm with you 100%. And if they are unwilling to say ****, maybe they should just keep their F bomb to themselves as well.

Well Shewolf,

Let's get rid of the extreme examples of kids knocking over little old ladies. That is not what I am talking about. You can teach respect without keeping your kid on such a tight leash that they can't be themselves. My point is about moderation and negotiation.

I will defend my point that kids are a fact of life even for people with no kids of their own. Even the crankiest curmudgeon and spinster will, in spite of all of their efforts to avoid human contact, will occasionally have to deal with a crying baby, or a laughing child or a bouncing ball. Don't say this isn't fair, because kids also will inevitably meet the cranky old person who will stop their innocent good natured game by taking their ball.

Kids are people too. They have as much right to be themselves in public space as anyone else. I teach respect, of course I teach my daughter not to run around people in walkers (my daughter actually has very good interactions with people and is usually very kind).

But come on! Getting upset when a kid bounces a bouncy ball in a store is ridiculous. You expect kids to understand there are adults in the work and to show restraint and consideration, and for the most part they do. But it goes both ways, adult also need to understand there are kids (who are human beings) around. They can also show little bit of restraint and understanding.

I agree with Max. And Chai.

Maybe the kids were being really obnoxious. Maybe they weren't. But playing with a toy in the toy aisle is much different than playing with it all over the store and then leaving without it.

You'd expect kids playing and being loud in the toy section. In the housewares? Not so much.

I guess you have to find that center somewhere and as a parent, put down a firm line. Every time we go to Target, my daughter has to see the toys. We don't buy any of them but she plays with a ton. In the toy aisle. We don't take it with us walking around. I can see Chai's point about playing with something you're not going to buy. I don't want something someone has dragged all over the store. You expect the toys to be played with, to a degree. Meaning, in the toy aisle, for a few minutes. She also has to put the toys back. I cant' stand parents who let their kids just leave it on the floor while they run off to something else to play with.

This whole thing comes down to respect. I don't want to "respect" you so much that i infringe on my own life however, I don't want my life to completely take over yours.

Thanks Bella.
In this case, the children were literally all over the store, bouncing (and the older one slamming) the ball.

As far as "cranky factor" I have absolutely no problem with children "being children", when it's in an appropriate environment.

Kids are supposed to play with balls in parks, playgrounds, yards, in their house and their cars, if their parents permit.
They can run around and yell and be totally free in those areas. If they are in a child friendly restaurant, they can stand on their chairs and throw food, if that what's permitted there. If they are somewhere where toys are provided for their use, they can play and bounce and smash, play and have a whale of a time.
I go to the public pool most days of the week during the summer, and some days there's a ton of kids. You'll never see me even comment on kids jumping, spashing, screaming "MARCO"........."POLO"........ad infinitum. That's what pools are for.
I do cringe when I hear a kid yelling "I'M DROWNING, I'M DROWING", only to look over and see he's in the deep end, but obviously ok.

These are the type of public places, and many, many more, too many to list here, where kids can do all that.

But, included in this list are not most retail stores, non-kid oriented retaurants, movie theaters where the movie playing is not specifically a childrens movie, libraries, etc. etc.

I imagine toy stores are a lot more lenient with letting kids play with toys before buying, but don't kid yourself. The toy store wants you kid to try out the toy, decide if he likes it, then have the parent pay for it before the kid goes to town.
Even more so like in a Target with a small toy section, or a Walgreen with literally a few feet devoted to toys.
The store wants the kids or you to try it out in that immediate area, and if they decide to buy it, put it in your cart and wait until you leave to play with it.
I know that doesn't sound like what some people want to envision, that the world is one big source of constant pleasure to a kid, but it's the truth.
Yes Virginia, the store manager DOES mind when your kid walks all over the store playing with a ratta tat tat gun or bouncing ball that hasn't been paid for.

If an adult or a child is kicking the back of my seat at a movie or in an airplane, I'm going to ask them to stop, and that's my right. If an adult or a child is swearing, and it offends me, ditto.
This idea that a person is only allowed to complain if they are being physically touched, like having your seat kicked is bullshit. There's no difference between that and having to listen to "BAM BAM BAM" or "**** you, **** you" for 10 minutes, non stop.

Most parents, the vast majority of them, realize and teach their children this concept of proper time and place.

Others just say things like max did, like that they're happy there aren't that many people "like me".

Sure they're glad, they're glad there's not enough people with the courage to tell them their kid (or them) are being a nuisance.

A lot of people probably think I'm really hard on my kid but she'll be the one signing their kids checks later in life so I don't feel so bad now.

I agree with chai - I'd probably do something similar. The kid's a brat and he was bothering her, she probably did him a favor. Sometimes you need to do something.

You have every right to stop someone that is invading your personal right to enjoy yourself - he was invading her personal right to enjoy herself. And she stopped him appropriately.

Kids also need to learn what is appropriate behavior at certain places. Kids need to be kids, but they also need to be part of society. The kid who is taught is ok to destroy and use property that does not belong to them is going to have issues later in life.

Kids can be kids at the playground.

And yes I have children and I would have taken the ball away from them if they started bouncing it in the store.

And children that are not taught this (ie behave yourself in the store) - grow into the adults that think the world revolves around them.

Maxdancona said,

There are a few words that have no meaning that isn't hateful (i.e. "nigger" or "faggot)

I take it you've never been to England. Here's a recipe for faggots

Pork faggots braised in cider with spring vegetables
Ingredients
For the faggots
250g/9oz pigs' liver, trimmed, roughly chopped

250g/9oz pigs' hearts, trimmed, roughly chopped

250g/9oz minced pork

300g/10oz breadcrumbs

salt and freshly ground black pepper

2 tbsp vegetable oil

2 large shallots, peeled, finely chopped

1 leek, peeled, finely chopped

1 large carrot, peeled, finely chopped

1 garlic clove, finely chopped

2 juniper berries, crushed

1 chilli, finely chopped

1 tsp ground allspice

250ml/9fl oz cider

2 tbsp chopped fresh parsley

2 tbsp sherry vinegar

100g/3½oz caul fat (available from traditional butchers)

For the cider sauerkraut
100ml/3½fl oz sherry vinegar or cider vinegar

250ml/9fl oz cider

small piece cinnamon stick

1 small white cabbage, finely shredded

½ small onion, peeled, finely sliced

salt and freshly ground black pepper

2 tbsp honey, preferably from Leicestershire

pinch chopped fresh thyme leaves

For the sage and onion rösti potato
2 large Maris Piper potatoes, finely sliced on a mandoline

½ small onion, peeled, finely sliced

1 clove garlic, finely chopped

1 tbsp finely chopped fresh sage

salt and freshly ground black pepper

2 tbsp rapeseed oil

1 tbsp butter

For the caramelised apples
3 Granny Smith apples

25g/1oz butter

75g/2½oz caster sugar

To serve
12 cooked asparagus spears

12 baby turnips

6 rashers streaky bacon, cooked until very crisp

6 deep-fried sage leaves

Preparation method
For the pork faggots, mix together the chopped pigs' liver and heart and the minced pork in a bowl. Mix in the breadcrumbs and season with salt and freshly ground black pepper. Heat half of the vegetable oil on a deep, non-reactive frying pan, then add the shallots, leek, carrot and garlic.

Fry gently until the shallots are soft but not coloured. Add the juniper berries, chilli and allspice and stir well.

Add the cider, increase the heat and and boil until the liquid has reduced to about a tablespoon, about 20 minutes. Allow to cool.

When cool, add the chopped parsley, then add the shallot and leek mixture to the bowl with the meat and mix until well combined. Add the vinegar and season, to taste, with salt and freshly ground black pepper.

Preheat the oven to 180C/350F/Gas 4.

Roll the meat mixture into 12 even-sized faggots and wrap each in a small piece of caul fat.

Heat the remaining oil in a pan over a medium heat and add the faggots (you may need to do this in batches). Cook the faggots, turning regularly, until golden-brown all over. Place the faggots in a roasting tray and roast in the oven until completely cooked through, about 15-20 minutes.

For the cider sauerkraut, pour the vinegar and cider into a large non-reactive saucepan. Add the cinnamon stick and bring the mixture to the boil. Add the cabbage and onion, reduce the heat to medium and cook out for about 10 minutes, or until the cabbage is tender.

Season, to taste, with salt and freshly ground black pepper, then add the honey and the chopped thyme. Cover the pan and keep warm to allow the flavours to infuse for a further 15 minutes before serving.

For the rösti, mix the potato, onion, garlic and sage together well in a bowl. Season generously with salt and freshly ground black pepper.

Heat the oil in a medium non-stick frying pan over a medium heat, then add the butter. When the butter is foaming, add the rösti mixture to the pan and pat down with a spatula to form a cake. Fry for 2-3 minutes, until the bottom is golden-brown. Turn over carefully with a spatula and fry on the other side until golden-brown. Turn out onto a chopping board and keep warm. Just before serving, cut into equal portions.

For the caramelised apples, peel, core and quarter the apples. Melt the butter in a frying pan and, when foaming, sprinkle in the sugar. Add the apples and cook on both sides until softened and golden-brown.

To serve, place a spoonful of sauerkraut in the middle of each serving plate. Add two faggots side-by-side on top of the sauerkraut. Place a wedge of rösti between the faggots. Place two caramelised apple pieces on top and arrange two baby turnips and two asparagus spears over and around the dish. Top each serving with a bacon rasher and a deep-fried sage leaf.

Two good things could have happened. The kid could have learned that there are times and places for that behaviour and this wasn't one of them. Even better, the parents could have learned the same lesson.