msolga
 
  0  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 05:28 am
@H2O MAN,
Quote:
... we are not slaves to liberal, democrat and marxists rulers like you and your ilk.

Slaves to all 3 at once?
That's a bit schizophrenic, isn't it? Wink

It doesn't matter how "self reliant" you are, H20 man, ongoing tough times in your community will affect your trade eventually. If the money supply dries up sufficiently in your community, because more and more employees (your customers) have lost work & become long-term unemployed, then it will eventually impact on you.
We are all a lot more inter-connected than you might think.
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 05:41 am
@msolga,


These days there is little difference between the three.

Yes, Obamanomics is having a negative effect on just about everyone outside the beltway. Is this part of Obama's plan?
Anyway, that's a big problem with Washingtonians, they forget that we the people are much more inter-connected than they think.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 05:45 am
@H2O MAN,
I don't live in America, H20 man.
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 05:45 am
@msolga,


No kidding Wink
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 05:48 am
@H2O MAN,
Nope, I'm not.
But capitalism does exist in other places, you know! Smile
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 05:53 am
@msolga,
msolga wrote:


But capitalism does exist in other places, you know! Smile


Thank God!
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 05:55 am
@H2O MAN,
.....though it may not be working very well! Wink
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 05:58 am
@msolga,


Thank Obamanomics and it's effects felt worldwide.
0 Replies
 
raprap
 
  2  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 07:22 am
@msolga,
Neither does the waterdude, although he may be here physically.

Waterdude lives in a delusional America, although what seems fascination is that it might not be waterdude's delusions.

Rap
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 08:09 am
@raprap,
You had help putting that thought together, didn't you FapFap...
0 Replies
 
Builder
 
  0  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 08:23 am
Capitalism works through three clearly defined codes of conduct; demand and supply and greed.

Pick which one of these codes of conduct to remove to enable and foster collectivism.
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 09:34 am
@Builder,
Greed is the tool of anti-capitalists.
Builder
 
  0  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 10:03 am
@H2O MAN,
And you reached this conclusion through logic? Or some illogical means?
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 10:12 am
@Builder,
Logic of course, how did you reach your previous conclusion?
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 11:13 am
@H2O MAN,
H2O MAN wrote:

Logic of course, how did you reach your previous conclusion?


The logic of the damned.
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 11:17 am
@izzythepush,
Your choice.
0 Replies
 
Oylok
 
  2  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 11:36 am
@Builder,
Builder wrote:
Capitalism works through three clearly defined codes of conduct; demand and supply and greed.


No offence, Builder, but this is an informational site first and a debating site second, so I need to clarify what some of these terms mean.

"Capitalism" is the private ownership of the means of production of goods -- as well as other resources. It does not mean that open markets determine prices (so it does not mean "supply" or "demand"). The most common alternative to capitalism is "socialism", where means of production are commonly owned. Usually "commonly owned" means the state owns them.

The "market system", on the other hand, refers to the money-based system, where individual producers and consumers choose what to produce, who produces it, and who consumes it. (Supply and demand come into play here.) The Soviet alternative to that decision-making device was "economic planning", where the state made decisions about what to produce and how to distribute it.

Now although it's important to distinguish term from term, it's true that capitalism and market economies tend to develop together, since they are both associated with a weaker government. Likewise, planned economies and socialism tend to develop in tandem; stronger government drives them.

Further misconceptions about capitalism and market economies:

"Greed is the fault of the capitalist system."

This is so false. For the purposes of this thread, I'll define greed as an irrational desire to have more than others have. Greed can ruin the lives of poor folk wherever the power-hungry gain control of the means of production. Under market capitalism, the power-hungry gain that control by becoming wealthy. Under centrally-planned socialism, they gain control by climbing to the top of the planning apparatus.

This fact has great bearing, IMO, on the question of whether capitalism is working or not. Perhaps, it is not so much capitalism itself that is failing us, but the turn things have taken towards control of our resources by giant bureaucratic transnationals, who know no code of conduct but "take, take, take--whatever the human cost."

"Market capitalism could not survive without greed."

Nonsense. People will always want things, and the simple tendency to want nice things is not, in itself, greed. What's sick about our world is the way that wanting "more things than others have" has become almost the end-all-be-all of life. If you have a million dollars winnings on the poker table and your opponent still has his shirt, then somehow haven't "won" yet. That attitude is greed, and it's everywhere; and the idea that capitalism can't survive without people adopting that attitude is nonsense.

Adam Smith said that when individuals acted out of self-interest it led to the greater good of all, but somehow that has morphed into the diseased view that impoverishing one's neighbour is right and good and will lead to the greater good of all. That is a warped view, because "self-interest" doesn't mean putting everyone else down; it can also mean lifting others up, especially when those others have the wherewithal to enrich your life in turn. (And, if you happen to be a giving person, "self-interest" can even mean lifting up the fortunes of others who will never be able to help you out in turn, simply because you don't enjoy watching others suffer.)

"To choose capitalism means rejecting collectivism, and vice versa."

Collectivists should embrace market capitalism, because it's a more efficient way of figuring out what to produce than planned socialism is. Rich capitalists should embrace a collectivist attitude, because if they don't agree that their system should be steered into working in everyone's interests, they'll find workers very recalcitrant about going to work. (I mean, hell, how can you expect the poor to work willingly for someone who adopts a hostile attitude towards their interests?) In summary, then, capitalism and collectivism are not mutual exclusive. One is the right system, and the other the right attitude.
0 Replies
 
Oylok
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 11:57 am
@H2O MAN,
H2O MAN wrote:

Greed is the tool of anti-capitalists.


Just as the wealthy are greedy when they become obsessed with having more than others have, the poor are greedy as well--when they seek to have as much as others have. Greed, as I see it, is about incorrectly defining your success relative to the success of others, rather defining success in terms of your own happiness and financial security.

People weren't all created equal, so those that lose in life should not be bitter about their lack of success. If the have-nots insist on having what the haves have, then, yes, that's "greed".

But there's nothing "greedy" about feeling a blinding RAGE at being so poor that you have to live day-to-day in a blinding, never-ending FEAR. There's nothing greedy about wanting to fill your teeth, or to be able to talk to your intellectual equals on the Internet as equals regardless of your net worth, or to not have to look at your shoes every time a girl asks what your "job" is. There's nothing "greedy" about wanting to live a stable, happy, financially secure life.

(For some Americans, those goals are now impossible. Fear is the "new normal".)
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 02:38 pm
@Oylok,
The moocher class are a greedy bunch. The do nothing to earn what they are given except vote for democrats. They feel entitled to what the tax paying working class earns & has... democrats are working hard to 'spread the wealth around' and increase the total number of moochers.

Democrats have enslaved the greedy and growing Moocher class.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Mon 11 Jul, 2011 03:00 pm
@H2O MAN,
Spoken like a true lackey
 

Related Topics

 
Copyright © 2022 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 05/18/2022 at 08:16:33