Is capitalism working?

@RexRed,

Good video RexRed.

Thanks.

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Occupy Ipad

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-20OPOGNteos/TrPF2HSxxqI/AAAAAAAAlh0/kzYhLAPiR5k/h301/11%2B-%2B1

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Secret Swiss accounts may not stay so secret anymore
IRS tells Credit Suisse to hand over details of wealthy Americans with hidden accounts

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45205514/ns/business-world_business/#.TrlpU0OXu7s

1 Reply

@RexRed,

What a joke!! If I try to screw the government out of $1000 they send me to jail. But if 4000 businessmen screw the government out of billions not only do they not go to jail but they probebly only have to pay a portion of their tax bill.

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Bill Gates Advocates Tax On Financial Transactions
Bill Gates explains his support for a Tobin tax
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15565963

The concept is sometimes called the Tobin tax after its originator, Nobel Laureate economist James Tobin,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tobin_tax

Gates points to the success of Britain's Security Settlement Tax
http://books.google.com/books?id=xBMqrCMY4pQC&pg=PA333#v=onepage&q&f=true

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US May Rival China in Job Competitiveness Soon: Analysts

http://www.cnbc.com/id/45161903

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Just a thought, isn't a "corporation" a form of communism?

1 Reply

@RexRed,

Quote:

Just a thought, isn't a "corporation" a form of communism?

Now that you mention it. When purist capitalism is incorporated, then yes, I agree.

Combined with the fairly recent push for globalism, accompanied by the also recent EU decision to formalise currency, along with today's push for the APEC expansion, perhaps those nworder fruitcakes might have been right all along.

Zeig heil.

I'm going camping. Don't forward my mail.

1 Reply

@Builder,

Builder wrote:

Quote:
Just a thought, isn't a "corporation" a form of communism?

Now that you mention it. When purist capitalism is incorporated, then yes, I agree.

Corporations and communism both start with the letter "C", but that's about all they have in common.

What the hell is "purist" capitalism? Please explain how this is "a form of communism".

1 Reply

@georgeob1,

georgeob1 wrote:

Builder wrote:

Quote:
Just a thought, isn't a "corporation" a form of communism?

Now that you mention it. When purist capitalism is incorporated, then yes, I agree.

Corporations and communism both start with the letter "C", but that's about all they have in common.

What the hell is "purist" capitalism? Please explain how this is "a form of communism".

Are corporations people or communities?

(Eyes without a face)

1 Reply

@RexRed,

RexRed wrote:

georgeob1 wrote:
What the hell is "purist" capitalism? Please explain how this is "a form of communism".

Are corporations people or communities?

Corporations are communities of people who exercise control of an enterprise proportional to agreed terms, normally based on the % of ownership of the capital involved. The individual ownership of capital implicit in the idea of corporations is anathema to communism, so your implicit comparison is both superficial and deceitful.

Do you mean to infer by your answer that all "communities" are inherently communist? I think the owners of the National Review, a corporation that owns and publishes a very conservative magazine of political commentary, would, for example, be very surprised to find you calling them communists.

Again, what do you mean by "purist capitalism" and how is this in any way equivalent to communism?

1 Reply

@georgeob1,

georgeob1 wrote:

RexRed wrote:
georgeob1 wrote:
What the hell is "purist" capitalism? Please explain how this is "a form of communism".

Are corporations people or communities?

Corporations are communities of people who exercise control of an enterprise proportional to agreed terms, normally based on the % of ownership of the capital involved. The individual ownership of capital implicit in the idea of corporations is anathema to communism, so your implicit comparison is superficial and deceitful.

Do you mean to infer by your answer that all "communities" are inherently communist? I think the owners of the National Review, a corporation that owns and publishes a very conservative magazine of political commentary, would, for example, be very surprised to find you calling them communists.

Again, what do you mean by "purist capitalism" and how is this in any way equivalent to communism?

The whole idea of a "community" is that it is somehow separated out from the whole. If corporations separate out people from the whole social group and somehow favor them for whatever "exotic" reasons, that is communism also.

1 Reply

@RexRed,

RexRed wrote:

The whole idea of a "community" is that it is somehow separated out from the whole. If corporations separate out people from the whole social group and somehow favor them for whatever "exotic" reasons, that is communism also.

I think your understanding of both corporations and communism is seriously deficient. Communism as a political/economic movement doesn't aim at separating a subset of the population from the rest in any way. Instead it claims the "objective inevitability" of universal rule of everyone by its principles.

In broader terms the formation of some group that is a subset of another as a "community" or "corporation" has nothing whatever to do with the collective ownership and control that is the essence of communism. Groups, collectives or corporations can choose to govern themselves by a great variety of rules - many completly antithetical to those of communism.

Corporations and communism do have something in common though. As I wrote earlier, they both start with the letter "C". That's about it.

1 Reply

@georgeob1,

georgeob1 wrote:

RexRed wrote:

The whole idea of a "community" is that it is somehow separated out from the whole. If corporations separate out people from the whole social group and somehow favor them for whatever "exotic" reasons, that is communism also.

I think your understanding of both corporations and communism is seriously deficient. Communism as a political/economic movement doesn't aim at separating a subset of the population from the rest in any way. Instead it claims the "objective inevitability" of universal rule of everyone by its principles.

In broader terms the formation of some group that is a subset of another as a "community" or "corporation" has nothing whatever to do with the collective ownership and control that is the essence of communism. Groups, collectives or corporations can choose to govern themselves by a great variety of rules - many completly antithetical to those of communism.

Corporations and communism do have something in common though. As I wrote earlier, they both start with the letter "C". That's about it.

I think of it like this.

If two (usually three) or more persons make a pact together... They are poor and they say we do not know which of us will become wealthy, so, if we make an agreement that whoever becomes wealthy shares it equally with the others of the agreement... Thus in the end they all have the same wealth "in common"... They are a community (commune) unto themselves. Does not a corporation function exactly this way? They take a collective financial risk. Their ideals become boundaries within their own social framework. They dominate a system of power that defeats the basic fabric of inalienable rights for others. This is communism too. Communism within communism. A commune of 1%. This is how corporations become powerful, dynasties, despots, dictators, shysters... and banks (mention them last), they share the wealth ONLY with others of their ilk. Corporations are communes.

1 Reply

@RexRed,

Your illustration of the shared enterprise of the "commune" in which the members share in the risk and the outcome bears only a vanishingly small resemblance to the political/economic movement known as communism. It is on this boint that your proposition that communism and capitalism are equivalent breaks down into absurd nonsense.

The policial/economic doctrine of communism would not (and the extant and former communist governments do not tolerate such communes unless they were/are managed, not by the supposed members, but rather by the self-appointed party, the "vanguard of the working class. Moreover such communes would not be free to follow an independent strategy to maximize their success, but would be forced to subordinate their goals to the party's view of the "class benefit" - a very big difference.

In a corporation the owners distribute the accumulated income of the corporation based on the % of invested capital, not on an equal basis.

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@georgeob1,

georgeob1 wrote:

Your illustration of the shared enterprise of the "commune" in which the members share in the risk and the outcome bears only a vanishingly small resemblance to the political/economic movement known as communism. It is on this boint that your proposition that communism and capitalism are equivalent breaks down into absurd nonsense.

The policial/economic doctrine of communism would not (and the extant and former communist governments do not tolerate such communes unless they were/are managed, not by the supposed members, but rather by the self-appointed party, the "vanguard of the working class. Moreover such communes would not be free to follow an independent strategy to maximize their success, but would be forced to subordinate their goals to the party's view of the "class benefit" - a very big difference.

In a corporation the owners distribute the accumulated income of the corporation based on the % of invested capital, not on an equal basis.

Once corporations become oligarchies they divide common wealth up with their constituents. A corporation becomes powerful enough to morph into a commune of 1% capable of enslaving the other 99%. If that is not communism then I am not sure what communism is. As the middle class slowly gravitates into poverty while the elite rake in profits, you have a perfect communist model here.

It would seem more regulations on banks with more taxes on the rich and even political reforms are in order.

1 Reply

@RexRed,

RexRed wrote:

Once corporations become oligarchies they divide common wealth up with their constituents.

What the hell does that mean? The wealth in question is owned by the stockholders individually, not in common with anyone. Who are the constituents? This is just a lot of vague babbling.

RexRed wrote:

A corporation becomes powerful enough to morph into a commune of 1% capable of enslaving the other 99%. If that is not communism then I am not sure what communism is.

More meaningless babble. Who are the "other 99%??? If you are referring to employees, corporations must pay a competitive wage or they wil lose their best employees.

RexRed wrote:

As the middle class slowly gravitates into poverty while the elite rake in profits, you have a perfect communist model here.

The middle class (or bourgeois as Lenin called them) was itself a creation of capitalist commerce and manufacturing. Before that they were all poor, subsistence farmers. Soviet communism destroyed the middle classes in countries it infected and made everyone a slave of the state, creating tawdry poverty for everyone. "We pretend to work and they pretend to pay us" was the cynical slogan of the Samizdat underground press in the USSR.

RexRed wrote:

It would seem more regulations on banks with more taxes on the rich and even political reforms are in order.

That is certainly your prefabricated solution, but you have presented no convincing case for it. Europe is collapsing under the debts accumulated by profligate governments and unable to grow out of it due to the heavy dead hand of government regulation and taxation. We aren't far behind them. A greater dose of the poision that is killing you surely isn't a cure.

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"Outside The Wall"

All alone, or in twos
The ones who really love you
Walk up and down outside the wall
Some hand in hand
Some gathering together in bands
The bleeding hearts and the artists
Make their stand
And when they've given you their all
Some stagger and fall after all it's not easy
banging your heart against some mad buggers
Wall

PINK FLOYD
the wall

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Deconstructing Right-Wing Myths About Socialism, Capitalism, and Who The ‘Job Creators’ Are

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2011/11/17/deconstructing-right-wing-myths-about-socialism-capitalism-and-who-the-job-creators-are/

1 Reply

Is capitalism working?

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