RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Sep, 2011 10:22 am
http://thelastword.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/09/15/7784406-private-sector-vs-public-sector
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Sep, 2011 03:45 pm
@georgeob1,

George wrote this:
Quote:
Perhaps you should write to all the world's leaders with your announcement that you have found a solution to the problem of prosperity and peace for the whole world - an international minimun wage law ! Some may accuse you of not understanding the meaning of Aesop's fable about the mice who found a solution to their eternal cat problem - belling the cat.

What government would enforce the minimum wage? What would you do about a country that tried to increase its wealth by lowering its wages and taking business from others? How would you deal with the certainty that prices everywhere would immediately rise proportionally to the increase in the minimum wage - thus leaving everyone where they started out. Would an international government caspable of enforcing such a universal wage not itself become a source of tyranny. Where would you find the Philosopher Kings to run it? Even Plato couldn't do that.


Comment: Perhaps world leaders are reading this...

Countries are already exploiting the minimum wage. And it requires these countries to all collectively agree on a minimum wage standard in good faith to their trading partners and their people.

Then real "skill" will be based upon actual performance and not simply the cheapest labor source.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Sep, 2011 06:52 pm
@RexRed,
RexRed wrote:

Countries are already exploiting the minimum wage. And it requires these countries to all collectively agree on a minimum wage standard in good faith to their trading partners and their people.
I'm not sure what you are getting at here. Many countries have minimum wage laws and their set points, applicability and enforcement varies widely. I know of no serious efforts to harmonize minimum wages anong nations (except perhaps for the EU, and even they have many exceptions and variations).

RexRed wrote:

Then real "skill" will be based upon actual performance and not simply the cheapest labor source.
A problem is that for poor countries their chief competitive advantage is cheap labor. That's how they get past being poor. I see no way of harmonizing minimum wages among (say) The U.S., Europe Algeria, Kenya, Nigeria or China. Each country has different tax laws, standards of living, prices for food and basic necessities and many, many other factors. More importantly each country as different self interests with respect to the issue. Agreement is impossible precisely because their self interests are in conflict.

Consider the absurdity of our continuing import of agricultural workers from Mexico and Central America while thousands of Americans are unemployed. The Americans would evidently prefer to clllect unemployment checks than do the hard work in the Central valley of California I suppose we could raise the minimum wage to the point that some previously idle city boys could be induced to sweat it out in the fields. However their productivity is likely to be lower and the combined effect would raise the price of the food to uncompetitive levels - creating aan economic burden on everyone else. Very quickly foreign competitors would flood our markets with cheaper produce from their countries, leaving our former producers and their new local employees out of business and everyone worse off that before we started. Alternatively we could erect tariff barriers to protect local agriculture leaving us all with much higher food prices. In addition our trading partners would retaliate, erecting trade barriers against our export products.

It's basic economics. Markets work very well allocating production to those who delivver the highest comparative advantage; levelling inequalities in wealth; rewarding those who are most productive; and greating more goods and services for us all.

It is very tempting to think in terms of imposed "ideal solutions" but very hard to get real people to accept them and harder still to realistically think through their inevitably very bad side effects.

Aesop was very wise and his story about the mice belling the cat tells the story.
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Sep, 2011 11:54 am
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

RexRed wrote:

Countries are already exploiting the minimum wage. And it requires these countries to all collectively agree on a minimum wage standard in good faith to their trading partners and their people.
I'm not sure what you are getting at here. Many countries have minimum wage laws and their set points, applicability and enforcement varies widely. I know of no serious efforts to harmonize minimum wages anong nations (except perhaps for the EU, and even they have many exceptions and variations).

RexRed wrote:

Then real "skill" will be based upon actual performance and not simply the cheapest labor source.
A problem is that for poor countries their chief competitive advantage is cheap labor. That's how they get past being poor. I see no way of harmonizing minimum wages among (say) The U.S., Europe Algeria, Kenya, Nigeria or China. Each country has different tax laws, standards of living, prices for food and basic necessities and many, many other factors. More importantly each country as different self interests with respect to the issue. Agreement is impossible precisely because their self interests are in conflict.

Consider the absurdity of our continuing import of agricultural workers from Mexico and Central America while thousands of Americans are unemployed. The Americans would evidently prefer to clllect unemployment checks than do the hard work in the Central valley of California I suppose we could raise the minimum wage to the point that some previously idle city boys could be induced to sweat it out in the fields. However their productivity is likely to be lower and the combined effect would raise the price of the food to uncompetitive levels - creating aan economic burden on everyone else. Very quickly foreign competitors would flood our markets with cheaper produce from their countries, leaving our former producers and their new local employees out of business and everyone worse off that before we started. Alternatively we could erect tariff barriers to protect local agriculture leaving us all with much higher food prices. In addition our trading partners would retaliate, erecting trade barriers against our export products.

It's basic economics. Markets work very well allocating production to those who delivver the highest comparative advantage; levelling inequalities in wealth; rewarding those who are most productive; and greating more goods and services for us all.

It is very tempting to think in terms of imposed "ideal solutions" but very hard to get real people to accept them and harder still to realistically think through their inevitably very bad side effects.

Aesop was very wise and his story about the mice belling the cat tells the story.


I believe the bible's Jesus also has a story about an employer paying three men different wages to work for him in the same day.

He pays one man the same wage to work a few hours that he paid another man to work all day.

He tells the man who worked all day, "well you agreed upon the wage..."

What exactly do we learn about social injustice from that?

Poor and starving people will work all day for near nothing?
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Sep, 2011 12:04 pm
@RexRed,
I'll confess to never being able to understand the meaning or intent of that story in the New Testament .

In any event labor unions in this country would never accept such an arrangementt unless it was they who were getting more pay for fewer hours worked.

How would you propose to put such rules into practice?

On second thought perhaps Jesus was expressing my point about different wages.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Thu 22 Sep, 2011 01:57 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

On second thought perhaps Jesus was expressing my point about different wages.


Some people are egotistical, then there are others who think they are being referenced by Jesus.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Sep, 2011 05:46 pm
@izzythepush,
And others have serious difficulties in reading comprehension.
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Sep, 2011 12:40 am
http://www.visualnews.com/2011/09/20/material-world-a-snapshot-of-world-possessions/
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Fri 23 Sep, 2011 03:09 am
@georgeob1,
Quote:
Jesus was expressing my point


That's right Bob, blame my comprehension skills, not your monumental ego. You used the phrase 'my point,' not the same or a similar point.
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Fri 23 Sep, 2011 06:23 pm
@izzythepush,
Are you often this obsessive?
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Fri 23 Sep, 2011 06:28 pm
@georgeob1,
I wouldn't call it obsessive Bob, just pointing out that you tend to call people stupid when they say something you don't agree with. It's what the elite do the world over, belittle dissent, keep the proles in their place.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Sep, 2011 07:05 pm
@izzythepush,
Have I called you stupid?
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Sat 24 Sep, 2011 02:58 am
@georgeob1,
You have questioned my comprehension skills which amounts to the same thing.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Sep, 2011 10:24 am
@izzythepush,
That's true, and it turns out you have still not understood. Whether the condition is a chronic defect or merely the result of your wish to find fault is something I don't know.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Sep, 2011 11:11 am
@georgeob1,
It would help if you said what you mean. I know perfectly well what you mean, but it's not what you said.

Now Spendi would call this below-the-belt Freudian bullshit, but what the heck. You probably think that Jesus could have improved things all round had he listened to you. You could have got rid of all that stuff about camels and eyes of needles. Subconsciously that's what you're saying.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Sep, 2011 11:19 am
@izzythepush,
You convict yourself out of your own mouth. You have no idea what might be my views of Jesus, Christianity or the conditions of our existence.

I think that "below-the belt-Freudian-bullshit would be the most charitable possible description of your reaction. Perhaps I should speculate about your unrevealed motives here as well. However, I regognize the effort to be futile, meaningless and uninteresting.
0 Replies
 
Builder
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Oct, 2011 03:12 am
Enough with the obfuscation.

Is capitalism working, or is it a cash-cow for the top tier of the fabled "establishment"?

Seems to me that when the captains of capitalism provide enough jobs to go around, with enough in the paypackets to make ends meet, there are more than enough yay-sayers to front up and keep the ball rolling.

Currently, that is not the case.......

Builder
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Oct, 2011 06:14 am
@Builder,
“The hand that gives is among the hand that takes. Money has no fatherland, financiers are without patriotism and without decency, their sole object is gain.”
― Napoleon Bonaparte
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Oct, 2011 08:48 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-kXje0z980&feature=player_embedded
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  2  
Reply Wed 2 Nov, 2011 09:00 pm
Jobs and manufacturing

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/45126819#45126819
 

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