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Do you regret voting for Obama in 2008?

 
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2011 04:26 pm
@georgeob1,
In the aftermath of McCain's defeat, a thread appeared with a title like "McCain Supporters: What Went Wrong?" or something like that. There were some interesting discussions in that thread, but I never participated because ... well, let's face it, I was never a McCain supporter. It just struck me that the thread, as established by its title, was a party to which I was never invited.

I mention that because here I've started a thread entitled "Do you regret voting for Obama in 2008?" Granted, I can't limit participation to those who the title actually addresses -- i.e. those who actually voted for Obama -- and, frankly, I foresaw the real possibility that this would provide yet another opportunity for conservatives to pile on. And now that georgeob 1 has shown up, can Finn be far behind?
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2011 04:28 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
The most frustrating thing for most of my friends and fellow Obama supporters was that they didn't actually listen to the guy when he ran in 2008. He said he wasn't going to be confrontational with Republicans and for the most part he hasn't been. He said he wasn't going to act as if the Exec branch ran the Legislature, and he hasn't done that. He said he was going to compromise instead of force his way, and for the most part, that's exactly what he's done.


I've been saying all along in my political circles that most left-wing-leaning people who find deep disappointment in Obama's presidency, do so because they believed the Republican talk show lines about Obama being a left-wing extremist and assigned to him the role of the almighty liberating liberal of the Democratic party. He never ever represented himself as being a left-wing extremist and hasn't allowed people to shove him in that direction, no matter how forcefully they want to insist. He is, however, left of the other choice we had.

The other day I was watching a special ceremony on CSPAN to recognize Bob Dole and his efforts to build the WWII war memorial. By today's measurement you'd think, as speakers listed many of his achievements and legacy of public service, that they were honoring one of the liberal democrats.
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2011 04:28 pm
@joefromchicago,
Maybe Biden was the first indicator but what has disappointed me the most are his choices for many top level appointments. I thought of him as a Washington outsider and thought his lack of tenure was a good thing. I was very disappointed when he surrounded himself with folks like Rahm, Hillary, Geithner, Summers and Bernanke.
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2011 04:38 pm
@joefromchicago,
I didn't have a vote in 2008. If I did, I would have voted for Edwards over Obama in the Democratic primaries, and for Obama over McCain in the finals. I stand by both hypothetical votes today.

Pelosi 2012!
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  4  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2011 04:41 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:
I find it interesting to note how common is the useage of the fairly recently manufactured (and still unusual) word "meme" by the most ardent Democrats here. What causes this interesting observable difference between them and the equally disparate group of conservatives here?

The theory of evolution---which liberals accept, conservatives feel uncomfortable about, and the "meme" concept builds upon.
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2011 04:42 pm
@JPB,
JPB wrote:

Maybe Biden was the first indicator but what has disappointed me the most are his choices for many top level appointments. I thought of him as a Washington outsider and thought his lack of tenure was a good thing. I was very disappointed when he surrounded himself with folks like Rahm, Hillary, Geithner, Summers and Bernanke.


I think the financial crisis had something to do with that. Economists certainly were panicking around that time and the prez' political advisers (per an article I read on Salon a while back) wanted him to project an image of reassurance to international markets. Keeping the same team onboard was viewed as a 'vote of confidence,' and also was meant as a pre-emptive strike against Republican claims that he was a socialist who was going to transform our system overnight.

Hillary and Rahm I don't care as much about. Geithner, Summers and Bernake are scum-suckers and their recommendations for the first year of Obama's term were mostly ineffective and amounted to basically throwing money at big banks instead of forcing them to confront their problems.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2011 04:42 pm
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:

georgeob1 wrote:
I find it interesting to note how common is the useage of the fairly recently manufactured (and still unusual) word "meme" by the most ardent Democrats here. What causes this interesting observable difference between them and the equally disparate group of conservatives here?

The theory of evolution---which liberals accept, conservatives feel uncomfortable about, and the "meme" concept builds upon.


Heh

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2011 04:43 pm
@Thomas,
Odd then that they only rarely refer to their own "memes".
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2011 04:45 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

Odd then that they only rarely refer to their own "memes".


Does either side spend much time focusing on themselves?

Cycloptichorn
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2011 04:49 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
No, but I have the strong impression that many liberal advocates view themselves as more thoughtful, independent and beyond all that deterministic stuff than their conservative opponents. For my part, I think that they often (not always) are quite deluded and provide entertaining illustrations of Hans Christian Andersens's story about the Emperor's new clothes.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2011 04:51 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Roger and I disagree on probably countless political issues, but he has, to me, well developed old time Republican views that I respect, whether or not I can just detail them. He doesn't pipe up much on the vociferous slanging political threads and I'm glad to see it when he does, and take his point on Obama.

On the issue re Obama not making hay when he had the numbers in Congress, that is where my disappointment as an Obama voter lay. Obama was always at the ready to give in and compromise, or so it seemed.

So I get your take on Obama too, Robert. I'm not quite there, but getting there.

I also see others' views re what I cared about most just fizzing away, especially the crack about middle military.

On voting, in the last place I lived, the whole vote in an election came to under 5000, and my side won but I wouldn't say handily. Recently, for the first time in my voting years, I'm less engaged in my local area: don't know enough about which person is worse.

(I'm grumpy. The LA Times came out today not picking a pal of ours for Jane Harman's seat, saying she is great but the other woman better. Grrrrr,)
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  4  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2011 04:51 pm
@djjd62,
djjd62 wrote:

i assumed he was kenyan Wink


That might be a big plus, depending on his tribe. After 9/11, the Masai tribe offered to send us a herd of cattle, in case that would help out a little. We didn't exactly accept, but I was surprised at how touched I was by the gesture.
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  4  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2011 04:55 pm
@JPB,
To be sure, Obama announcing that he was going to solve the economic crisis while surrounded by a bunch of Wall Street insiders was a bit like Elliot Ness announcing that he was going to enforce Prohibition while surrounded by a bunch of Al Capone's gang.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2011 04:55 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

No, but I have the strong impression that many liberal advocates view themselves as more thoughtful, independent and beyond all that deterministic stuff than their conservative opponents. For my part, I think that they often (not always) are quite deluded and provide entertaining illustrations of Hans Christian Andersens's story about the Emperor's new clothes.


I don't think either side is meaningfully different. There are a great many Conservative commentators online whose opinion I respect and read daily. There are others whose opinion I don't really respect, but I read them daily anyways, because at least they can lay out a good argument for why they feel the way they do.

But, there are many who don't even bother laying out a good argument, and think that repetition of assertions is a substitute, and what more, a convincing one to others. I can't agree with that position.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2011 05:01 pm
@Butrflynet,
I never thought of him as any left wing extremist, and past that, I never listen to talk show lines. His middle has just been way more squishy middle than I had hoped.
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2011 05:02 pm
When I started this thread I mistakenly clicked the "Ask a Question" button rather than the "Start a Discussion" button. Now I have this annoying "Select Answer" option on every post -- except my own. Since I can't make the logical choice and pick one of my own posts as the best answer, I have decided to use this power in the most irresponsible fashion possible. Therefore, I will give the award to the first post that I consider to be truly idiotic. Consider the gauntlet to have been thrown down.
joefromchicago
 
  2  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2011 05:14 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Yaknow, the funny thing about this topic, is that amongst my friends, I'm considered - and always have been - somewhat negative re: Obama. I remember warning people right off the bat that, no matter what he said, he'd be damn lucky to accomplish anything at all in the modern environment. Which subsequent events have proven to be mostly true.

Oh, he has accomplished quite a lot. The problem is that a surprising amount of what he has accomplished has been on behalf of the Republican party.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  2  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2011 05:23 pm
@ossobuco,
I think it's been all calibration -- I just don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. I think he takes the long view and tries to get the maximum amount done that CAN be done, taking a whole lot of things into account. (For example, he can get more done in eight years than in four, so whatever he does during this first term needs to also not torpedo his chances in 2012. And he's always run as the moderate, reasonable, willing-to-compromise pragmatist.)

And since he's not a dictator, getting stuff done means push and pull and compromise.

Every time I wish that the system wasn't so damn cumbersome, so that he could get a lot more done, I remember that I was very glad for the checks and balances when Bush was president.

That's a short version -- I don't think he's been perfect (and I don't think he thinks that, either).

But I remain very, very happy that he won in 2008, and hopeful that he'll win again in 2012.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2011 05:34 pm
@joefromchicago,
Well, felicitations on an interesting thread, after several members had said, plainly and simply, "no," or said it less plainly and simply. Then, of course, the sniping began, which can be entertaining . . . for a while.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2011 05:42 pm
@joefromchicago,
joefromchicago wrote:

When I started this thread I mistakenly clicked the "Ask a Question" button rather than the "Start a Discussion" button. Now I have this annoying "Select Answer" option on every post -- except my own. Since I can't make the logical choice and pick one of my own posts as the best answer, I have decided to use this power in the most irresponsible fashion possible. Therefore, I will give the award to the first post that I consider to be truly idiotic. Consider the gauntlet to have been thrown down.


Give the ribbon to me! I like ribbons! White Sox rule!

(how's that?)
 

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