You can lead a kid to homework but you can't make them think.

Forums: Parenting, Childcare, Homework
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I need some serious advice re: the "make me" phase (please Dog let it be a phase).

Let's take this hypothetical situation......

Your kid has homework to do and they don't want to do it.

They have baseball practice in just a few hours.

Mom's tactic it to say something like

"Okay. You're not wanting to do your homework so let me point out the repercussions: You're not going to practice. If you miss three practices you're off the team. If you get kicked off the team you owe me the $200 bucks I wasted by signing you up. Plus, if you miss a year of baseball you probably won't make the team next year. If you don't do you're homework you might be deciding to give up playing baseball.

If you get bad grades at school y0u'll probably have to do summer school too so instead of goofing off and having fun you might end up in summer school.

But doing homework is your job, not my job, so if you decide not to do it "fine".

I just want you to know that you're the one making those decisions and you're making them right this minute.

And, you're going to sit there until the homework is done anyway."

And then walking away.

Dad's tactic is to get pissed and wonder why this hypothetical child wasn't "made" to do his homework.

Can you really MAKE someone do something they don't want to do?

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@boomerang,

Yes, boomer!
I've been down that road and I did it all - explain the repercussions, tried
to bribe her, entice her and threaten her. Bottom line always was that I forced Jane to sit down right that moment an do her homework. At first she was just staring at the page and did nothing and I told her that I don't care if she sits there until bedtime, she stays there until her homework is finished.

Usually, she had another five or 10 minutes of pouting but then she started
doing it and before you know it she was finished and quite happy.

Unfortunately, we still play these games....*sigh* In elementary school, Jane
came home and immediately did her homework, middle school was more of
a challenge and now in high school it's a real struggle. She's a good student,
but homework is not something Jane wants to do.

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@CalamityJane,

This has repercussions in later life. I've been an obedient soul, mostly, re deadlines, complicated paperwork, designing/drawings/draftings, but my old child is showing up now and saying pfffft. My old child self - my parents didn't push me re homework, I was self pushed. What a puffball. Looking harder at the child me, I probably had a lot of fear of not doing my homework. I suppose it was the nuns with their habits and beads.
Adds, designing on deadline is interesting. Play is still part of it, but the play becomes urgent, especially if you lallygagged mooning about just thinking.

I think the trick is to get the person/child to learn to control their own self and their tendencies. No advice on how to do that. Maybe having goals of some sort. I was raised in a guilt culture, but am no fan of that.

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@CalamityJane,

That's where we were tonight -- 3.5 hours to do an hours worth of homework. Him sitting at the table, furious and crying. Me trying to stay calm.

I think the worst part is that me and Mr. B are fighting about it too. We've been together for nearly 30 years with only a few little arguments and now this.

It's beyond depressing.

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@boomerang,

((understand))

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@ossobuco,

I think that's what I'm trying to do -- get him to control himself by giving him control while having a say over what happens if things don't get done.

Mr. B is ready to strip his life bare of any kind of thing he enjoys.

I'm the one who mostly deals with the joyless child.

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@boomerang,

Oh I know exactly how you feel, boomer. Many times I had to leave as I was
so furious that I couldn't even think straight, but this is part of the utter defiance kids sometimes display and they test and wait and see how far they
can go. Trust me, once Mo realizes that there is no way out, he won't fight
you that much anymore (until high school that is Very Happy

)

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@boomerang,

I was the "natural consequences" parent and Mr B was the "lock 'em in their room" parent. We decided early on that only one of us could be the disciplinarian because we were polar opposites in approach. He deferred to me but that meant that everything that went wrong was my fault for being too lenient. <sigh> One of the things that was chronically wrong was K's attitude about school and homework. She hated school and told me that she only went because she had to. We had many a nightmare night at the kitchen table.

How good is Mo at looking down that road of consequences? Summer might seem like a long time away. Having to do homework for months before getting to play baseball might not seem too appealing. Does he have the $$$ he'd owe you for getting kicked off the team? The consequences have to be real and meaningful if he's going to take them on as being worth the torture of doing homework in order to avoid them.

Do you sit at the table with him to help him focus? I know that that makes it your homework too, but I found that it made a big difference with K if she had company at the table.

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if loading him with visions and outlines of consequences bother him, frustrate him and get him frazzled then stop .
Kids do not have that long term concept yet and we as adults tend to think that we can " teach" that to them.
We forget that their entire life experience on this planet is limited to only 8 or 9 years . There IS no long term concept yet.

I do not give bean control when it comes to things that she SHOULD do like home work. If she said no, there is no discussion, practice is out that night.
If she says no again.......no practice.
Then it lands in her lap that she is off the team. She just learned consequences and I didnt have to explain, and hover and explain and get frustrated and explain some more.

Simplicity works best when everything else creates un needed drama.

but, that is just an outline of how I would see things and think it through. A long winded situational advice column. haha
Things are different for you guys so I dont know what else beyond the very simple, very blunt to the point repercussion like that to bring something to an end.

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@JPB,

Listening to JPB.

Boom, I remember being wild at my niece and stifling it. Only a couple of times - I wasn't in a parental role - but I remember being on fire. Hard to tamp, doable.

JPB's experience seems close.

1 Reply

@JPB,

JPB wrote:

Do you sit at the table with him to help him focus? I know that that makes it your homework too, but I found that it made a big difference with K if she had company at the table.

ooo.. this made me think of something. When it is time to do homework with Bean, we dont do it at the table . We do it alllll around the house.

if she has a math problem, while doing dishes we talk it out.
Same with english, reading etc..
For her it works to not confine it to a physically stunting place like the table. It isnt a lesson plan.. not like that.. but we discuss it ( home work) for a while, go over.. write down the answer and find something else to talk about from her home work.

maybe something like that may help MO focus? he IS a very active kid...( so is bean)

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@shewolfnm,

Now that's interesting, Wolf.

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Quote:

But doing homework is your job, not my job, so if you decide not to do it "fine".

Is it really fine though? What's the real consequence of not doing the homework? I think this comes down to a conflict of interest between you, Mo, and the teacher. My definition of natural consequences means that whoever made the rule defines the consequences. The teacher made the rule that Mo has to do his homework or.... what, exactly? He'll get in trouble with the teacher. Which means that you'll get pulled into the discussion with the school because Mo didn't do his homework. What the discussion turns to however is that YOU didn't see to it that he did his homework, so her assignment to Mo was really an assignment to you and the consequence is that you both end up in conference at the school.

I'd pull rank. Not doing homework isn't really fine (unless it is from your perspective). I'd explain it that I don't like it any more than he does but you've both been given an assignment - him to do the homework, you to see that he does it - and you aren't going to fail in your assignment because the consequences are simply too awful.

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@shewolfnm,

That sounds good.

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@JPB,

Our families sound pretty similar! Yes, sigh, my fault, always.

He's pretty good at looking down the road if you explain it. Baseball isn't way down the road, it was tonight. Yes he has the money in the bank to pay us back. And, no, it obviously isn't worth the torture of homework to get things done.

I do sit at the table with him. He yells at me for hours telling me how it's my fault he hasn't got things done. He yells and yells and yells and yells. For hours.

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@shewolfnm,

It isn't the consequences that bother him. It's NEVER been the consequences that bother him. He seriously doesn't give a ****.

He didn't get to go to practice. He cried for a minute, until Mr. B had to go to practice (he's an assistant coach) and then he didn't care.

I can quiz him on his spelling list or his multiplication tables while we do dishes or other things but I can't help him figure out the perimeter and area of a polygon, or how to do long division with remainders without sitting down and showing him how to work it out.

How much more simple or blunt can "if this doesn't get done then this doesn't happen" can things get?

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@ossobuco,

Hard and doable, yes. But it still leaves damage.

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@boomerang,

Really? He yells at you for hours? I guess, I am too much of a disciplinarian
than to have Jane yell at me, I don't stand for that.

1 Reply

@shewolfnm,

Mo gets about 2 hours of homework a night -- which means it takes us 45 minutes in the morning and about 2 hours in the afternoon. On average we spend 2.75 hours on homework each day. On bad days we can spend up to 5 hours. That doesn't leave much time for anything else.

On bad days that leaves him about 5 hours for eating, showering, playing, etc. -- IF he doesn't have baseball practice. On "bad" baseball days that leaves him 3 hours to be a kid.

Please tell me what makes a kid focus? We've tried all the tricks.

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@JPB,

You so get it. I love you for that. Thank you.

It really is fine with me. I'd almost like him to get in trouble at school for not doing the work. I think hearing it from the school would make a huge difference. I would rather see him flunk 4th grade than drop out in 10th.

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You can lead a kid to homework but you can't make them think.

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