The lies we tell children. (and the lies we were told as children.)

My mother didn't lie a lot, as far as I know....Father Christmas and Easter Bunny, sure...but I am thankful to say she didn't lie about major stuff. She WOULD say, "I won't tell you about that, you're too young."

The BIG lie in our life was about my sister having a terminal illness, but I think that was a pretty common way to deal with such things then. Doctors often didn't tell ADULTS back then, and getting information out of doctors was really hard.

My father lied a lot. A lot of it was due to his narcissism, I think...he didn't like to admit he didn't know anything and he also didn't take other people very seriously.....

So, a lot of the lies were just silly....like I would ask about what an insect or animal was, or ask the big questions that kids ask, and he'd make up some nonsense.

This was annoying to me because I was seriously interested in the world, and a precocious reader, so I was forever reading about science and stuff and finding out that so much I had been told was pure bullshit.

To be fair, bless him, he strongly encouraged all the reading and, for a malignantly stingy man, he was generously prepared to get me some serious books and encourage our weekly library ritual.

Many of his other lies were pretty bad, though. Seriously bad.

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@msolga,

One terrible untruth kids of my generation used to hear occasionally was that "only the good die young".....

You could see the smiles on some of the faces when that one came up. There was no small number of kids thinking to themselves something like

Quote:

"Hey, that's GREAT!! I mean, I'm an ASSHOLE, that has to mean that I'm gonna live to 150!!!!!

In real life of course, assholes were and still are PARTICULARLY susceptible to dying young, for numerous reasons.

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@dlowan,

My mother: I sympathize with her more as years go by, and I started around twenty at about nil after a lot of love as a child. She was principled and bright and polite and made straight in her points of view - which in my mind seemed never to change, but may have, since I wasn't there over the scope of her years.

As a parent she was very controlling, me being the controlled one, but - years going by - I can see from her side. She wasn't open intellectually to argument, which my father was. I identified with him. This was a typical family war, I know now, but a cold place to live, especially since a lot of other bad stuff happened.

It is strange now that I would cherish even the bad years.
I guess this is all off topic. I take it as re perception.
Lies, they got less. Things didn't get better.

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@littlek,

Quote:

Calvin and Hobbs is one of our things that should have made it to all corners of the earth.

It has. I read it in The Age newspaper.

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@Roberta,

Quote:

... and the tooth fairy (who looked remarkably like my father)

Now thats bound to mess up a kid

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I've been thinking about the questions you've raised in this thread, olga. I like thought-provoking.

I remember a lie that didn't cause lasting harm but did cause lasting hurt.

My father let me win at something I'd never beaten him at before. At first I felt good. I'd been trying to win for a long time. Then I became suspicious. Maybe it was the expression on his face. I knew I hadn't really won. I started to cry and scream--loud enough for my mother to come running into the room to find out what was wrong.

I think it's harmful to let kids win. It gives them the false idea that they're good at something they're not good at and a false sense of themselves.

Finding out that someone let you win is hurtful. It takes away the sense of triumph. And it's insulting. Not good enough to win on your own. I'll take pity on you. (I'm getting upset just remembering this.)

I believe that my father did this out of kindness. Give the kid a break. I was hurt. He cheated. He mislead me. He insulted me.

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@msolga,

Except for being told of Santa Clause,
when I was a baby, there was not much lying going on.
That was good.

David

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@roger,

You rock, roger.

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@msolga,

Quote:

We tell students that that can achieve all sorts of things, that anything is possible, if they work hard enough.The fact is, this isn't true at all.Not EVERYONE is going to reach the giddy heights of success.
This is so obvious in the real world.
But parents & teachers keep saying these things.
Why?

Because, if you tell a child that his/her height, his/her IQ, his/her grades, his/her looks, his/her whatever are going to hold them down - they might not try. The fact is - and what I tell my boys is, if it is something you want - you give it your best - you never will achieve it if you don't try. If you want it - you will give it your best shot - once you have done that - you can try to be content with wherever you got and move to the next thing. I will do whatever I need to to see that they get the chance to live their dream. The fact is - that kids are either motivated to do the impossible or they are not - I for one do not want to be one of the nay sayers that do not encourage to try. Greatness cannot be achieved without risking what is considered the impossible sometimes. At the very least we all learn something...I never disillusion them. We just do our best - we put one foot in front of the other and we live out our passion.

My kids ARE the most beautiful children in the world to ME - that is no lie. Wink

As far as the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus are concerned (and the tooth fairy) When my kids ask for the truth, they get it. Same way with sex and anything else. There is something amazingly magical about Christmas - Easter and the tooth fairy are a bit weird to me - not sure what makes the difference but - magic - I long for it myself. When they get to the point where they see the strings and want to know why - I tell them. I think there are some personalities that just want to believe. Aliens, Santa Claus - whatever - the unknown and the possibility of something bigger and magical is delicious.

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So I return after a short interval & discover a thread-ful of fascinating input.
Wonderful.
Thank you everyone for your personal stories & your thoughtful comments on the subject.
It has taken quite a while to read all these posts .... I think a second reading might be in order, at a more leisurely pace.

But, can I clear something up first?
I checked out dj's links to Calvin and Hobbs & realized that yes, I had indeed come across them before.
They have made it to Oz, as a number of you have pointed out.
I'm just not as familiar with them as (obviously) most of you are.
So that clears that one up! Smile

http://images.gocomics.com/images/gocomics/flare/calvin/calving-header.jpg

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Throwing this statement into the discussion for your consideration.
It's from a NYT article on the subject .
This (quoted psychologist) argues that it is not the content of the lie, what is actually said to the child, which matters most.
That it is what children learn, or interpret, from the act of lying, by someone very important in their lives, which has the most impact on their perceptions.

Quote:

THE truths we tell our children are punctuated with lies. We insist that their drawings are beautiful or that we are not really upset. We tell them lies to protect them or to protect ourselves. And we deceive them about Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy so that we can enjoy their childhood a little more.

Most of the deceptions are benign and have few if any long-lasting consequences. Yet children learn a great deal from the lies they are told by their parents and others who are important to them. What they learn often depends upon how they interpret the act of lying, rather than the lie itself.

"People think of honesty as a disembodied value, but it's more than that," said Dr. William Damon, a developmental psychologist and a professor of education at Brown University in Providence, R.I. "Children learn about truth by participating in relationships that are truthful."....

http://www.nytimes.com/1991/11/21/garden/parent-child.html?pagewanted=1

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@snood,

Quote:

"We love you very much" was a lie?

Sad.

Yes, that was the saddest lie of the lot of them, I thought, snood.

That the parents would say that & the child clearly believed they were lying.

And maybe they were?

Maybe the parents didn't even know their words didn't reflect the reality?

Many children experience family life in which they know they are no 2, or no 3, or .... not terribly important in the grand scheme of family life.

What do they make of the parents who are clearly telling them things which they know to be untrue?

Not so much different to the lie:
"We value all of you (children in the family) equally & treat you all equally."

When at least one child, maybe more in that family, knows that this is patently untrue, from close observation of family dynamics.

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[bookmark]

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Quote:

You are the prettiest girl/most handsome boy in the world
I was never told this one - and I don't think any of my siblings were- my parents never focused on looks.

I don't and haven't said this to either of my children either. I don't want them to focus on looks either.

The existence of Santa, the Easter Bunny and Tooth Fairy

This was just fun fantasy. My parents were Christian so Christmas was about Jesus' birth, Easter was about his resurrection, and the tooth fairy was about growing up and rite of passage.

Same with me and my kids. Christmas was about giving, Easter was about spring and new life and they knew I was the tooth fairy and I was excited they were growing up and getting big.

Do this or you’re not going to get “your birthday/Christmas/family vacation
Never heard this one - my parents didn't bribe and all of us knew they'd never isolate or deny us in that way.Never have and never would use this on my kids.
But for someone who would, maybe it wasn't a lie. Maybe the person really would use this as a punishment.

'Mommy and daddy are taking a “nap”
Can't remember being told this one

Eating your vegetables will make you grow up big and strong

I do believe that children and people who eat vegetables and fruits are healthier and have stronger immune systems, so I wouldn't call this a lie.

If you play with your privates too much, they’ll drop off
Never heard this one - never said this to my children. My parents, thank god, never had occasion to say it to me and I never had occasion to say it to my kids.

If you keep making that awful face, your face will stay that way for always.
This, if said, is a joke - isn't it? That sort of thing is considered a lie?

The police arrest children who swear
Never told this, never said this.

You're going to do great things some day.
Never told this, never said this - what they did say was, 'Do your best' and that's what I say to my kids.

That sleepaway camp was for my benefit, not theirs.
I never went to sleepaway camp - neither did my kids.

That good people eventually succeed, and that bad people will ultimately be held accountable.
Is that always a lie?

My mom used to tell me that if I misbehaved, she was going to call the cops and have them take me away. She would then proceed to pick up the phone and dial.
Never heard this - never said this.

"We love you very much"
That was not a lie in my life

If you drink a lot of milk, you'll grow to be really tall.
Milk builds strong bones and teeth - that this is a lie is splitting hairs again.

"If you pick your nose, your head will cave in."
Never heard this, never said this.

If you sneeze, fart, cough and blink at the same time, you will explode. It happens all the time. So don't be surprised to if walk in a room to find someone's spontaneously exploded.
Never heard this, never said this.

"Free country”
Mine was - at least for someone like me- I never felt imprisoned or enslaved.

'Father Christmas only comes to good little children'
Maybe whoever said that meant it.

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The existence of Santa, the Easter Bunny and Tooth Fairy
I don´t think this is a lie at all. It is just like all the fairytales one hears as a child. Stories about trolls, fairies, witches. It helps our fantasy. I loved all the stories. Take Alice in Wonderland - it is full of fantasy, or Peter Pan. This all brings out fantasy.
If you cannot enjoy Santa and Easter Bunny is probably because you lack fantasy.

Do this or you’re not going to get “your birthday". It happened once in my life and for some reason the gifts did not arrive, so there were just one or two and then the table was decorated with some flowers and chocolate. When I saw the table I clapped my hands and said "Oh I must have been a very nice little girl" The last time according to my father and aunt they said something like that.

If you keep making that awful face, your face will stay that way for always.
That would only happen when the wind turns and the rooster crows on the same time. So I knew it was a joke.

The police arrest children who swear.
I was told to preferable to ask a police about the way if I was lost. Police is a friend

"If you pick your nose, your head will cave in."
When I picked my nose my father told me to send a postcard when I reached my goal.....

Of course parents have the right to lie now and then just like we children did lie to our parents.

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@msolga,

Quote:

Not so much different to the lie:
"We value all of you (children in the family) equally & treat you all equally."

When at least one child, maybe more in that family, knows that this is patently untrue, from close observation of family dynamics

I remember when I was about six I said to my mother that I thought she loved my sister Sarah more than she loved me. Sarah was very good, very quiet, very studious and very obedient. I was not a bad kid, but much more mercurial and impetuous.
My mother said to me, and I'll never forget it, 'Sarah is like a quiet, shy little kitten and you're like a playful puppy. And shy little kittens need more petting than playful little puppies.'

I could understand that analogy perfectly and it didn't make Sarah look bad or me look bad - it just highlighted the fact that we were different personalities and needed different treatment.

And as people age, dynamics change. Now I know my mother loves being around me as much if not more than Sarah because due to our separate personalities, she and I laugh and laugh, while Sarah plays the social worker with her and tells her what she should be doing to meet all the needs aging people have.
But both are valued and needed - they're just different.

So, even if someone isn't treated exactly as someone else is in a family - it doesn't mean they're not valued or loved just as much. That's not necessarily a lie.
I actually found this article sort of petty- in that it makes children seem less intelligent, resilient and able to reason as they most often prove themselves to be.

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Lie i was told.
Eat your crusts and it will give you a hairy chest.
The boogyman will get you if you get out of bed.

Nuh Uh!

I think children are smarter than many folk give them credit for. Children are able to decipher the difference between cartoons and real life, between fantasy and reality.
As a young child I believed in the tooth fairy Santa Claus and the Easter bunny but i was not (or dont remember) being upset when I found the reality.

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@dadpad,

dadpad wrote:

Lie i was told.
Eat your crusts and it will give you a hairy chest.
The boogyman will get you if you get out of bed.

Did u request any defensive firepower
for personal safety on your way to the bathroom ?

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Sometimes a lie can be better than reality.

A little girl was very very afraid of the lion under her bed. She did not dare to fall asleep. Parents, grandparents whoever heard about it around bedtime told her that there is no lion under your bed.
Once around bedtime a lady was visiting and she took it very serious and wanted to see the lion. She did not like the look of the lion either, so she pulled and pushed till she was all sweaty and got the lion into the bathroom with the help of the little girl.
They flushed the lion down the toilet and that was the end of it..... The lion never came back.

1 Reply

@saab,

It might have been faster n less labor intensive
to give her a .50 caliber anti-lion gun,
thereby obviating plumbing repairs.

David

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The lies we tell children. (and the lies we were told as children.)

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