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WHAT Did the Germans Have Against the Slavs, in WWII?

 
 
VALTUI
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jun, 2011 06:56 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Thank You so much for the warm welcome. For one thing: I am neither Antisemite nor racist and I loathe both.. I am pro Capitalist and Pro American. I have been a student of history since 1964.

From the impression I have gotten over the years, here is what the average non-German seems to believe about Hitler and the Germany of the 1930s:
(1) Hitler was a madman; probably not even human more than likely Satan in disguise.
(2) His only reason for going into politics was his insane hunger for self agrandizement and a chance to someday kill millions of people, especially Jews.
(3) The German people are all a bunch of sado-masochistic weirdos who think they are better than everybody else.
(4) The Americans and British stood on high moral ground and had a right to kill as many Germans as possible, regardless of whether they were civilians or not, because they were ridding the planet of a bloodthirsty race of sado-masochistic weirdos.
(5) The Germans had nothing to complain about from 1919 to 1932.

I can assure you that I will not lower myself to hatefull words of war here. I promise that everything I put out here is an attempt to deal with history on a sane and sober basis and to include all the hard facts I can. I welcome intellegent responses and challenges. I am an expert in the German language and would be than happy to give you an exact translation of any German script.
VALTUI
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jun, 2011 07:39 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
I have no reson to believe that Hitler had any particular personal hatred for people of Slavic origin. He was born in and grew up in a multi-cultural society: The Austro-Hungarian Monarchy. I am sure he was aware that some of his family were of Czech origin because he had uncles who were called "Nepumuk"; the name of a Czech national hero. Clearly he fell under the influence of the anti-semitism of the times. But the reason for his interest in politics had little directly to do with anti-semitism. He was merely one of millions of Geramans who were indignant at the outcome of the World War under Versailles; the weak and chaotic leaders who formed the first democratic government in Germany,(SPD). They were in fact incompetent and Communism was a very real threat in Germany at the time. The loss of huge swaths of Germany to hostile foreign interests and the loss of home and hearth to millions of ethnic Germans; the total collapse of the economy; millions unemployed; factories and businesses being taken over by foreign interests and enemies of Germany, add to that the reparations and occupation of Germany's industrial zones. I have not yet mentioned the unjust criss-crossing of borders after the desolving of the Austro-Hungarian homeland which was his . . . .(The Hungarians of today are still complaining). Yet none of this resentment is the sole result of any direct hatred toward peoples of Slavic culture or origin. It was a much bigger and more complex situation than that. I must remind the readers that Czechs, Slovaks and Croatians fought on the side of Germany in WWII along with other Slavic groups. Germans commonly bare Slavic last names!

If one listens to Hitlers speaches, these are the issues he speaks of most of the time. He was no more guilty of blaming Jews for Germany's problems than the Comminist leaders did. "It was the Big Bankers, the Movers of Finance" they yelled.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jun, 2011 04:32 am
@VALTUI,
You suppositions about "non-Germans" are more than a little flawed. I'd be interested to know how one identifies "the average non-German." Certainly many people believed, and still believe that Hitler was a madman, and with good reason. I have no reason to believe that most people believe that Hitler was either not human nor "Satan" in disguise. I consider it completely reasonable to assert that Hitler went into politics because he longed for power--whether or not that equates with an "insane hunger for self-aggrandizement" is a subjective judgment, and once again i see no reason to assume that you can read the minds of "average non-Germans," never mind being unable to define such a creature. I seriously doubt that he went into politics for a chance to someday kill millions of people, nor do i believe that most people believe that--once again, you have a nearly insurmountable burden of proof.

I seriously doubt that most people believe that the Germans were "sado-masochistic weirdos." As for thinking they were better than everybody else, that was a key tenet of the NSDAP philosophy--that the Germans were a master race. It was contingent upon the maintenance of such a belief that millions of people were eventually murdered. That is not, however, any reason to assert that people believe that Germans were "sado-masochistic weirdos." Given that you have no basis for such a claim, that idiocy about Americans and British being justified in killing German civilians won't wash, either. The United States Army Air Force practiced daylight, precision bombing. Their record of accuracy was damned good, it exceeded their minimum standards. That there was "collateral" damage, that civilians were killed, was a regretable consequence of a war which the United States did not start. The Royal Air Force practiced night-time area bombing, and that certainly did target, knowingly target, German civlians. I don't see any reasons for you to allege that the British considered themselves to be morally justified in doing so because of some deeply flawed character of the Germans. If one were to surmise, the most likely reason was simple revenge. They hadn't started the war, and the Germans visited night-time area bombing on them. When troops went in on the ground, they didn't round up and shoot Germans as being "sado-masochistic weirdos."

Whether or not German complaints about their situation from 1919 to 1932 were justified, it is human nature to complain. The entire Versailles Diktat myth was bullshit, as was the stab in the back myth. What the Germans complained of was almost entirely a product of their own actions in the Great War. Once again, leaving aside the idiotic claim about "the average non-German," i don't know of any wide-spread belief that Germans had nothing to complain of from 1919 to 1932. In fact, the myth that the Versailles treaty "caused" the second world war in Europe is prevalent, giving the lie to your assertion.

Perhaps you could enlighten us as the basis for these claims about "the average non-German."
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jun, 2011 05:06 am
@Setanta,
When you look at the "general" public opinion in Germany past 1919 (= leaving aside the far right and the monarchists), the "Versailles Diktat" became only really present after the occupation of the Ruhr ("Ruhr struggle" as it was/is called here).

It all started with the Treaty of Verdun in 843 ... Wink
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jun, 2011 05:22 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Yeah, it was that damned Louis the German all along . . .
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jun, 2011 05:28 am
@Setanta,

There was a tiny typo in your post, Set: Charles the Bald -first king of Baldavia - that's the one you meant.

[Btw: it's not that but Verdun-sur-Meuse. And even more important: it was called by its real, German name in those days ... (Wirten).]

0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jun, 2011 05:36 am
Yeah, but old Louis created Germany . . . bad move . . .
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gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jun, 2011 06:23 am
@OmSigDAVID,
To the extent that racism actually was a factor in Nazi planning, I believe you have to consider the concept of genetic death which Haldane later codified and made part of standard evoloserism theory and the necessity of "beneficial mutations" being passed into an entire species one at a time rather than piecemeal, at least in theory. In real life of course there is no such thing as a beneficial mutation in any sort of a large sense since all mutations lose information.

The thinking is that the existence of a more advanced type, Germans in this case, insures the gradual demise of the other types, and that you aren't doing the others any real favors by prolonging the agony. Likewise Curtis LeMay noted that you aren't doing a dog with a cancerous tail any favors by cutting the tail off in slices; that was in reference to the ferocity of the fire-bomb raids.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jun, 2011 06:31 am
@gungasnake,
gungasnake wrote:

The thinking is that the existence of a more advanced type, Germans in this case, ...


The Nazis used the term "Herrenrasse" (master race).

They didn't refer with it to 'Germans' but to the 'Aryan race'. The declared in their programs that Nordics (= the Germanic peoples) were the true Aryans.

Germans are inhabitants of Germany (or the German-speaking population of the Holy Roman Empire).
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jun, 2011 06:41 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Hitler also declared the Japanese to be "yellow aryans"...
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jun, 2011 06:50 am
@gungasnake,
gungasnake wrote:

Hitler also declared the Japanese to be "yellow aryans"...


And your source for this myth is?
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jun, 2011 09:14 am
@Walter Hinteler,

gungasnake wrote:

Hitler also declared the Japanese to be "yellow aryans"...
Walter Hinteler wrote:
And your source for this myth is?
I had heard that also.
I saw it reported somewhere, many years ago.

I cannot guess as to its truth.





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jun, 2011 09:17 am

I 've been to Japan, to Formosa, and to to Hong Kong numerous times.
I 've never seen ANYONE colored yellow.





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jun, 2011 09:20 am

I 've also seen 1000s of Indians in Arizona.
Not even 1 of them was colored red.





David
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gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jun, 2011 10:50 am
@Walter Hinteler,
I don't do other people's research for them.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jun, 2011 11:00 am
@gungasnake,
gungasnake wrote:

I don't do other people's research for them.


I wouldn't either - but I didn't asked you to some research for me but for your source.
gungasnake
 
  0  
Reply Sat 18 Jun, 2011 12:32 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
That one is common knowledge. Again if you want to research it, www.google.com.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Jun, 2011 12:58 pm
@gungasnake,
gungasnake wrote:

That one is common knowledge.


In some White Power boards this seems to be repeated a couple of times - but that doesn't make it true.

The Nazis had some problems to explain "Aryan Indians", that's true.
And some Nazis called Arabs "non-non-Aryans" (at least, some researchers say so).



But perhaps your German isn't that good and you translated "Ehrenarier" the wrong way?


The Political Testament of Adolf Hitler, Note N°5:
Quote:
Pride in one's own race - and that does not imply contempt for other races - is also a normal and healthy sentiment. I have never regarded the Chinese or the Japanese as being inferior to ourselves. They belong to ancient civilizations, and I admit freely that their past history is superior to our own. They have the right to be proud of their past, just as we have the right to be proud of the civilization to which we belong. Indeed, I believe the more steadfast the Chinese and the Japanese remain in their pride of race, the easier I shall find it to get on with them.


About 10,000 Japanese nationals who resided in Germany, were "honorary Aryans" and thus enjoyed more privileges than any other non-Caucasian ethno-national group because of the honorary Atyan citizenship.

There are quite a few Jewish "Ehrenarier" ('honoury Aryans') as well like e.g. Hans-Heinrich Herwarth von Bittenfeld, Emil Maurice, Erhard Milch ...
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Jun, 2011 01:57 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter, have u observed any anti-Slavic sentiment in Germany?

If so, what objections were raised against them ?





David
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Jun, 2011 02:40 am
@OmSigDAVID,
I suppose, there are prejudices against some as there prejudices against certain (ethnic) groups elsewhere.

These are partly being backed by certain (criminal) facts.

But I think that you'll find such everywhere - and it "works" vice versa (= anti-German prejudices)!
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