35
   

military action against Libya

 
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Apr, 2011 04:57 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
It would have been over in days a few weeks ago if we had stayed out if it....
At the cost of the rebels dead and more interrogations .
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Thu 7 Apr, 2011 05:06 pm
@Ionus,
Quote:
At the cost of the rebels dead .
THese are guys from the same tribes who have supplied far and away the most terrorists against the West on a per capita basis of any peoples of the Middle East....remind me again why I care...
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Thu 7 Apr, 2011 05:08 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
THese are guys from the same tribes who have supplied far and away the most terrorists against the West on a per capita basis of any peoples of the Middle East
Thats a bold claim....what about the Palestinians and the Saudis ?
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Apr, 2011 05:11 pm
@Ionus,
Quote:
Thats a bold claim....what about the Palestinians and the Saudis ?
I did not do the research, but the claim is that the Tribes around Benghazi blow the Saudis away in supplying the terrorist training camps. What terrorism do the Palestinians do? The PLO attacked the West a long time ago, but now they only attack Israel, as is their right considering what the Israelis do to them.
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Thu 7 Apr, 2011 05:17 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
I did not do the research, but the claim is that the Tribes around Benghazi blow the Saudis away in supplying the terrorist training camps.
Then I shall ignore the claim . The Saudis provided the money and the operatives for 9/11 . The Palestinians invented Middle East terrorism and have provided large numbers for Afghanistan and Iraqi terrorism which is largely financed by Saudi money . Without the rebels, would you even be aware of those tribes ?

Quote:
now they only attack Israel, as is their right considering what the Israelis do to them.
Make up your mind . Is terrorism good or not ? Or is it only good if it is against those filthy Jews ?
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Apr, 2011 05:23 pm
@Ionus,
YOu could not possibly do your own research I take it.
Quote:
2007 West Point Study Shows Benghazi-Darnah-Tobruk Area was a World Leader in Al Qaeda Suicide Bomber Recruitment
.
.
.
Darnah, northeast Libya: World Capital of Jihadis

The most striking finding which emerges from the West Point study is that the corridor which goes from Benghazi to Tobruk, passing through the city of Darnah (also transliterated as Derna) them represents one of the greatest concentrations of jihadi terrorists to be found anywhere in the world, and by some measures can be regarded as the leading source of suicide bombers anywhere on the planet. Darnah, with one terrorist fighter sent into Iraq to kill Americans for every 1,000 to 1,500 persons of population, emerges as suicide bomber heaven, easily surpassing the closest competitor, which was Riyad, Saudi Arabia.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/the-cia%E2%80%99s-libya-rebels-the-same-terrorists-who-killed-us-nato-troops-in-iraq.html
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Apr, 2011 05:36 pm
@hawkeye10,
I accept your point then . So what is the best way to negate terrorism ? Kill them all ? Allow Qaddafi to continue ? Perhaps we should ask Lockerbie .
hawkeye10
 
  2  
Reply Thu 7 Apr, 2011 05:52 pm
@Ionus,
IDK about that, but I do know that I am not much caring if tribes that regularly attack the West are squashed like a bug when they rise up against a guy who has/had largely made peace with the West so long as we did not say anything when he took a large skim off of the oil profits. Gadhaffi was never going to kill a half million civilians as the rebells claimed, as was the justification for our entering this civil war. Journalists are all over the Rebells effort, reporting from the side of the Rebells, have you not wondered yet where are all the bodies that normally would be on the nightly news?

We went in under false pretenses, into a civil war that we have no interest in, as the airforce of people who attack us on a regular basis. This was not a great move for even a has been super power such as ourselves.
Fido
 
  2  
Reply Fri 8 Apr, 2011 05:24 am
@Irishk,
Irishk wrote:

Charlie Rose had a French philosopher, Bernard-Henri Levy, on his show the other night who was urging ground troops in Libya (American troops). There was another man from the Daily Beast (can't remember his name) who thought that was a terrible idea, but the French guy said with trained ground troops the civil war in Libya would be over in a 'matter of days'. He also said he's recently been in Libya, met the opposition leaders, and they're all ok guys.
That is not much of a philosopher who wants to stick his nose in current affairs... It is simply a matter of focus, and the where we have been and where we are going requires a long range vision that no one would deliberately obstruct with temporal diversions... Who is blessed with all the facts of these matters, anyway??? Even the governments involved do not know who they are fighting for, and misinformation is their stock and trade... I know enough to know that philosopher does not know what he is talking about...

And should it seem like I think I know, then I would correct you first... When people are killing each other it is obvious their forms of relationship are failing them... Beyond that, the morality of the matter cannot be reckoned by the numbers of dead... Some times, morality actually demands death, and at other times, morality defends death... But the fact is that oil, and the desire for imperial control very much obscures the moral issue... As one smart fellow noted: When they say it is not the money, but the principal of the thing, it's the money... It is always the money... But Money is just another form of relationship, and one that often fails people...
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Apr, 2011 05:30 am
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:

Since the US has no business being there in the first place, using ground troops in any capacity, even as advisors, would be a huge mistake.

The only thing that would accomplish is to make more people angry at us and cause more problems for the US.
Naw... That scene would be about impossible... One of the problems with such adventures as Iraq and now Libya is that they reveal how much of a tool the U.N. is for western interest... It should do all it can for peace, and instead only justifies aggression...
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  0  
Reply Fri 8 Apr, 2011 05:34 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
At the cost of the rebels dead .
THese are guys from the same tribes who have supplied far and away the most terrorists against the West on a per capita basis of any peoples of the Middle East....remind me again why I care...
Caring is just natural too you is my guess...
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Fri 8 Apr, 2011 06:59 am


They are finally making progress in Libya, NATO just killed some rebels.
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Fri 8 Apr, 2011 08:03 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
a civil war that we have no interest in
We have no interest in saving human lives ? Getting rid of a dictator that has attacked the west with terrorists and still funds them ? Of supporting Wars like the USA War of Independence ? What is the motive not to ? Too hard ? Might get tricky ?
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Apr, 2011 08:50 pm
@Ionus,
Quote:
We have no interest in saving human lives
Is that what we are doing, because there are many in the Ivory Coast who are of the opinion that what the international community has done is to glom onto the side that presents the best play of the victim card and then enforce our will in their behalf.

Look, you know where I stand in the rape thread about using the claimed victim status of women for the state to justify putting the finger on the scale on the side of women, and also in how the state uses the claimed victim status of women to justify the police state intrusion into our relationships and bedrooms......I am no more in favor of that then I am of the UN using victim theory to decide disputes with-in nations. I dont think that the next superpower China has been right very often so far about global affairs, but they are damn right about this.
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Sat 9 Apr, 2011 04:58 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
I am no more in favor of ....... the UN using victim theory to decide disputes with-in nations.
When do we use our military ? Because there will not be any big wars till we run out of resources . In the meantime, the closer we get to stablising the international community and using the rule of law the better .

Quote:
I dont think that the next superpower China has been right very often so far about global affairs, but they are damn right about this.
They have a very long tradition of not caring about the rest of the world . They only went into Tibet because China used to own it a long time ago and they being a male dominated governemnt felt they had little dicks unless they took Tibet . Then they could be big like in the old days . It had no other purpose unless they wanted to throw away money and international opinion .
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Apr, 2011 07:03 pm
Quote:
WASHINGTON – Amid complaints from allies that the U.S. military should be doing more in the Libya operation, Pentagon officials disclosed Wednesday that American fighter jets have continued airstrikes inside the country even after the United States turned the mission over to NATO last week.
The revelation came as Pentagon officials laid out U.S. participation in the Libya conflict over the past 10 days, including that Americans have flown 35 percent of all air missions.
Those missions, they said, include bombing attacks against Libyan surface-to-air missile launchers, as well as surveillance and refueling operations. It was the first time the Pentagon acknowledged that airstrikes continued after the U.S. handed over control of the Libya mission to NATO on April 4.
According to Pentagon officials, eleven U.S. fighter jets were assigned to NATO to look for and take out the air defense systems.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_us_libya

As per usual Obama's word turns out to be worth zip.......
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Wed 13 Apr, 2011 07:06 pm
@hawkeye10,
I thought Obama said "no ground troops."
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Wed 13 Apr, 2011 07:11 pm
@cicerone imposter,
He said that after turn over that it would not be our planes flying over Libya. Our planes were not supposed to be dropping ANYTHING on Libya after turn over.
Quote:
"When this transition takes place, it is not going to be our planes that are maintaining the no-fly zone," the president said at a news conference in El Salvador as he neared the end of a Latin American trip overshadowed by events in Libya. "It is not going to be our ships that are necessarily enforcing the arms embargo. That's precisely what the other nations are going to do."

http://www.chicagodefender.com/article-10333-obama-us-will-turn-o.html
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Wed 13 Apr, 2011 07:13 pm
@hawkeye10,
I missed that! Obama's truth scale is somewhat broken.
ossobuco
 
  0  
Reply Wed 13 Apr, 2011 07:14 pm
@cicerone imposter,
This is all fucky fucky.

Hard to read.
 

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