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military action against Libya

 
 
Irishk
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Mar, 2011 07:52 pm
Obama: U.S. Involvement in Libya Action Would Last 'Days, Not Weeks'

hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Mar, 2011 07:58 pm
@Setanta,
Quote:
I'm not sure that he'll want to create a situation in which no nation will have him, and in which there will be nowhere for him to run to if he is driven from power.
So you dont take him at his word that the only way he is leaving power is by way of death....
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Mar, 2011 07:59 pm
@Irishk,
Excellent article, Boss, thanks . . .
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Mar, 2011 08:00 pm
@hawkeye10,
No, i don't. He's a rabble-rouser and a blatherskite. He says a lot of **** which proves meaningless, like the "line of death" bullshit in the 1980s.
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Mar, 2011 08:56 pm
@Setanta,
thinking Idi Amin
Amin became the Chairman of the Organisation of African Unity, a pan-Africanist group designed to promote solidarity of the African states. During the 1977–1979 period, Uganda was appointed to the United Nations Commission on Human Rights he died about 6-7 years ago living well in Saudi Arabia.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Mar, 2011 10:37 pm
@dyslexia,
If he's careful, Kadaffi could live in relative luxury the rest of his days in exile, so long as he doesn't give people a reason to hunt him down to the ends of the earth.
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Mar, 2011 11:49 pm
@Setanta,
Fall River, Massachusetts
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Mar, 2011 11:50 pm
@dyslexia,
The home of Lizzie Borden !
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Mar, 2011 05:05 am
http://primary.washingtonpost.com/world/us-allies-prepare-military-action-against-libya-as-gaddafi-forces-continue-attacks/2011/03/18/ABLAOfs.html?wpisrc=nl_natlalert


Gaddafi’s forces enter Benghazi as U.S., allies prepare military action against Libya

TRIPOLI, LIBYA — Forces loyal to Moammar Gaddafi entered the eastern rebel stronghold of Benghazi Saturday after air strikes and fierce fighting, a fresh act of defiance even as the United States and its allies prepared to launch military attacks on Libya.

A warplane was shot down over Benghazi. Government troops — some reportedly in tanks -- entered Benghazi from the west, in the university area. The city of 1 million quickly became a ghost town, with residents fleeing or seeking cover in barricaded neighborhoods. A Washington Post reporter saw the aircraft go down in flames. It was not known who shot it down.

On Friday, President Obama warned that the Libyan leader faced imminent military action unless his troops were withdrawn from all disputed cities in the country. But the besieged town of Misurata, 130 miles east of Tripoli, was still coming under heavy artillery fire, residents said, and there were also reports of continued fighting around Ajdabiya, even farther to the east. The assaults on rebel-held towns took place despite government promises of a cease-fire.

The conditions set by Obama were more specific than those contained in a resolution approved a day earlier by the U.N. Security Council, suggesting that the United States and its allies are in no mood to countenance delays by a Libyan regime whose forces have recaptured large swaths of territory from rebels in recent days.

U.S. ships in the Mediterranean were preparing to bombard Libya’s air defenses and runways to clear the way for European and Arab forces to establish a no-fly zone throughout the country, according to U.S. and European officials. Fighter aircraft from France, Britain and the United Arab Emirates converged on bases in and around Italy to begin operations over Libya under the command and control of the United States at its naval base in Naples.

The military preparations came on a day of bloodshed across the Arab world, as governments appear increasingly willing to use arms to suppress the dissent that has mushroomed since the success of popular uprisings in Tunisia and Egypt earlier in the year. In Yemen, 47 people died when security forces opened fire on protesters in the capital, Sanaa, and at least five people were reportedly killed during a government crackdown on unrest in Syria, a strategically vital country that has been ruled with an iron fist by the Assad family for the past four decades.

In an address at the White House, Obama spelled out conditions that Gaddafi would have to fulfill if his country is to avoid military intervention under the provisions of a U.N. Security Council resolution adopted Thursday that authorizes the use of force to stop the violence.

“These terms are not negotiable,” Obama said. “If Gaddafi does not comply with the resolution, the international community will impose consequences and the resolution will be enforced through military action.”

Obama said that in addition to halting their advance on Ben ghazi, the last remaining rebel stronghold in the east of the country, Libyan troops would have to pull back from the towns of Ajdabiya, Misurata and Zawiyah. He also demanded that Libya establish water, electricity and gas supplies to all areas.

A doctor at the hospital in Misurata said 16 civilians and 25 rebels had been killed in a government assault Friday, at least a dozen of them after the cease-fire supposedly went into effect. In Benghazi, a rebel spokesman said two people had been killed in Ajdabiya in attacks after the cease-fire was announced.

“Until this moment, they have not stopped attacking us. There will be no negotiations,” Khaled al-Sayeh told reporters Friday night. “The attacks are still happening at this moment.”

He said attacks were also taking place in the towns of Zintan and Zuwaytinah well after the cease-fire was announced.

In the area around Zuwaytinah, more than 90 miles south of Benghazi, jets streaked across the sky firing at targets, at least one helicopter flew low across the desert, and artillery bombardment could be heard for several hours Friday afternoon.

A tentative deadline for Gaddafi’s full compliance was set at midday Saturday after a meeting in Paris of U.S., European and Arab governments. U.S. and European officials said the British, French and UAE jets, initially flying from a French base on the island of Corsica, could move earlier if Gaddafi continued offensive operations overnight.

It appeared clear that the Libyan government had been caught off-guard by the speed with which the Security Council moved to authorize the use of force, after weeks of indecision during which pro-Gaddafi forces made significant advances.

Libya’s deputy foreign minister, Khaled Kaim, denied that there had been any violations of the cease-fire since it was announced in the early afternoon. He called on observers from four countries — Malta, China, Germany and Turkey — to send a fact-finding team to Libya to verify that the cease-fire is being observed.

U.S. officials expressed skepticism.

“We are not going to be responsive and impressed by words,” Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton told reporters in Washington. “We would have to see action on the ground, and that is not yet at all clear.”

She added that “the final result of any negotiations would have to be the decision by Colonel Gaddafi to leave. But let’s take this one step at a time.”

British Prime Minister David Cameron also said he was unconvinced by the cease-fire announcement, telling members of Parliament that Britain was already preparing to deploy fighter jets and other air support to the region.

“Our forces will join an international operation to enforce the resolution if Gaddafi fails to comply with its demand that he ends attacks on civilians,” he said.

A U.S. official with access to classified intelligence on Libya said the CIA and other American spy agencies monitoring Libya had seen evidence of continued fighting, from satellites and from sources inside the country.

“There are reports out of certain areas that fighting continues,” said the official, citing Misurata. The cease-fire “should be considered tenuous at best right now,” the U.S. official said, speaking on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive intelligence information.
0 Replies
 
Irishk
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Mar, 2011 10:55 am
@georgeob1,
This graphic may or may not be entirely accurate. I think two of the ships (the USS Barry and the USS Mason) have been decommissioned for years according to Wiki. Did we build new ones and give them the same name, do you think?
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/03/18/article-1367063-0B3B561800000578-400_634x804.jpg
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Mar, 2011 11:05 am
CBC has just reported that French aircraft are patrolling over Benghazi. As usual with journalists, you can't tell if they are observation aircraft or fighter-bombers. The "coalition partners" are exercising their jaws in Paris right now.

CBC has started to refer to the rebels as "democracy activists." I don't know if that's CBC propaganda, rebel propaganda, or the simple truth.
Irishk
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Mar, 2011 11:09 am
@Setanta,
CNN has been showing video of what they purport to be one of Gaddafi's planes going down in flames (shot down by the French). Last night, one of their experts speaking on the opposition forces referred to them as 'outlaws' instead of the more popular 'rebels'.
Robert Gentel
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Mar, 2011 11:15 am
@Irishk,
I think that was a rebel plane shot down by rebel friendly fire.
Cycloptichorn
 
  3  
Reply Sat 19 Mar, 2011 11:23 am
I must reiterate again, that I am filled with an immense sense of dread regarding this entire enterprise. I'm sad to see that the same voices - in the media and the hawks in either party - are driving us once more to a war in a foreign land, with nebulous goals and questionable benefits. Am I the only one to notice the pattern here?

I think the idea that this will be quick, clean, easy or not involve ground troops, is a foolish one.

Cycloptichorn
Irishk
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Mar, 2011 11:24 am
@Robert Gentel,
I think Huffpo got it wrong, as well. They show a photo of a plane going down in flames (similar to the CNN video), with the headlines: French Jets Flying Over Libya; Allied Leaders Announce Military Action

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/258459/thumbs/r-LIBYA-REBELS-WARPLANE-large570.jpg

CNN is now reporting that French fighter jets have fired on a tank, destroying it.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Mar, 2011 12:28 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:
I must reiterate again, that I am filled with an immense sense of dread regarding this entire enterprise. I'm sad to see that the same voices - in the media and the hawks in either party - are driving us once more to a war in a foreign land, with nebulous goals and questionable benefits. Am I the only one to notice the pattern here?

I think the idea that this will be quick, clean, easy or not involve ground troops, is a foolish one.

Cycloptichorn


I can't say I understand your opposition to war, but clearly your heart is in the right place and you're one of the good guys.

I think that Obama intends our role to be more logistical, with European nations actually doing the main fighting over Libya. So the US shouldn't be too heavily involved, if that makes you feel any better.
georgeob1
 
  2  
Reply Sat 19 Mar, 2011 12:38 pm
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

I think that Obama intends our role to be more logistical, with European nations actually doing the main fighting over Libya. So the US shouldn't be too heavily involved, if that makes you feel any better.


Do you believe the distinction you are making between a mostly supporting role and direct participation in the fighting has any political or moral significance ? I don't. Furthermore, I strongly believe we will be directly involved in missile attacks and possibly air operations.

I believe Ghadaffi is a tyrant who has supported terrorist acts against us as well as oppressing his own people for a generation now. Though there is great uncertainty as to what may follow him, it is hard to argue that helping the Libyans get rid of him will do much harm.

My objection is only to the idea of this country continuing to carry this burden for others who only backbite us in return. It is long past time for the "international" community to learn a bit about the many contradictions attendant to fending for itself. I do agree our involvement should be very limited, however, my conficence in the lack of endurance of our allies in the international community reassures me that this will not last very long.
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Mar, 2011 12:49 pm
@georgeob1,
something in the back of my mind keeps whispering "korea"
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Mar, 2011 12:53 pm
@dyslexia,
The verdict of history is pretty clear that our defense of South Korea was a good thing. That we applied a veneer of UN "legitimacy" that induced a war-weary west to help in the effort was of secondary importance - though, you are correct, it has come back to bite us.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Mar, 2011 01:23 pm
@Irishk,
Irishk wrote:

This graphic may or may not be entirely accurate. I think two of the ships (the USS Barry and the USS Mason) have been decommissioned for years according to Wiki. Did we build new ones and give them the same name, do you think?


The Forrest Sherman & Evarts class ships are all of fairly new construction. Reusing old names is indeed fairly common. The submarine & the destroyer are both equipped with cruise missiles.

It isn't much of a naval force compared to the two battle groups, each of about 10 ships we kept in the Med until 2002.

It appears to me that Sigonella Sicily and French air bases on Corsica will be the principal operating bases. Though Malta is in NATO and there is an airbase near Valetta, it isn't clear to me that they are involved at all. That means most of the air missions will be launched from Enterprise and Charles DeGaulle, with supplemental missions from Sigonella supported by long range tanker aircraft. Supporting a continuous combat air patrol to enforce a no fly zone over Libya would be extremely difficult from a remote base like Sigonella (or those in Corsica which are even farther away). I suspect the two carriers will provide the CAP and shore-based UK & French aircraft supporting airstrikes with assist from US & NATO tankers. Missile equipped ships can provide some air defense cover near the coast however.

In short this looks like a U.S. - French operation with some assist from the UK.

 

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