35
   

military action against Libya

 
 
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 8 Feb, 2012 11:14 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
TRIPOLI, Libya — As the militiamen saw it, they had the best of intentions. They assaulted another militia at a seaside base here this week to rescue a woman who had been abducted. When the guns fell silent, briefly, the scene that unfolded felt as chaotic as Libya’s revolution these days — a government whose authority extends no further than its offices, militias whose swagger comes from guns far too plentiful and residents whose patience fades with every volley of gunfire that cracks at night.

The woman was soon freed. The base was theirs. And the plunder began.

“Nothing gets taken out!” shouted one of the militiamen, trying to enforce order.

It did anyway: a box of grenades, rusted heavy machine guns, ammunition belts, grenade launchers, crates of bottled water and an aquarium propped improbably on a moped. Men from a half-dozen militias ferried out the goods, occasionally firing into the air. They fought over looted cars, then shot them up when they did not get their way.

“This is destruction!” complained Nouri Ftais, a 51-year-old commander, who offered a rare, unheeded voice of reason. “We’re destroying Libya with our bare hands.”

The country that witnessed the Arab world’s most sweeping revolution is foundering. So is its capital, where a semblance of normality has returned after the chaotic days of the fall of Tripoli last August. But no one would consider a city ordinary where militiamen tortured to death an urbane former diplomat two weeks ago, where hundreds of refugees deemed loyal to Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi waited hopelessly in a camp and where a government official acknowledged that “freedom is a problem.” Much about the scene on Wednesday was lamentable, perhaps because the discord was so commonplace

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/09/world/africa/libyas-new-government-unable-to-control-militias.html?_r=1&hpw

HECK OF A JOB, AMERICA!
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 9 Feb, 2012 05:12 am
@hawkeye10,


Way to go Obama!
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Feb, 2012 07:39 am
@H2O MAN,
Have you noticed that neither Obama or any other member of the brain trust that gave us the Libya horror story is itching for a repeat in Syria? I have. Do gooder morality has been brought face to face with reality, and been found wanting. The Libyan people were better off with Qaddafi.
djjd62
 
  2  
Reply Thu 9 Feb, 2012 07:47 am
@hawkeye10,
i think the main difference is the established (if somewhat fragile at the beginning) lybian opposition force that was armed and resisting and had a base of operations, in syria the army and government still have the strong upper hand and while homs seems to be the seat of opposition i don't think it's the same as the situation in lybia
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  2  
Reply Thu 9 Feb, 2012 08:02 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
Quote:
... a government official acknowledged that “freedom is a problem.”

Freedom is definitely going to be a challenge for all these countries that go through revolutions to dismantle their existing dictatorships or theocracies. There's no doubt about it.

But they made their own choice, and ultimately freedom will be worth it, if they can actually achieve it. Even after all their efforts there's no guarantee that they will even end up with a new government which is much better than the previous one. Power vacuum's attract all kinds of players.

Even though the battle for control has been won, the war for transition is just getting started. And these will be shadow wars played out inside these countries in back rooms with tactics and strategies those on the outside will never see.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Feb, 2012 11:10 am
@rosborne979,
They may also flare up into shooting wars again. I've read in more than one source that there are lots and lots of weapons and troops from the former regime in Libya which have not been accounted for.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Feb, 2012 12:01 pm
@hawkeye10,
Have you noticed, although frankly I doubt it, that there was a UN mandate authorising the action in Libya? You may also have failed to notice that a much milder UN resolution regarding Syria was vetoed by Russia and China.

You've clearly failed to notice all of the human rights abuses that occured under Gadaffi, if you think the Libyans would be better off with him.

0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Feb, 2012 12:35 pm
@rosborne979,
Much sacrifice of life is needed to make changes to governments; it'll be worth it for the next generation if they can achieve it.
H2O MAN
 
  -3  
Reply Thu 9 Feb, 2012 01:12 pm
@cicerone imposter,


Are you talking about ousting Obama if he does get elected to a second term?
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Apr, 2012 02:51 pm
So everyone, how is this "liberation of Libya" working out for the Libyan People?



Quote:
In Tripoli, the traffic lights work, but are universally ignored.

“Why do you need an AK-47 to tame the traffic?” Sabri Issa, a petroleum services company owner, asked while watching four young militia fighters gruffly directing the clots of cars around Martyrs Square, their automatic rifles waving at windshield height. Two police officers sat in their car a few yards away. “They do nothing to control these guys,” Issa said. “We have a government in name only.”

Militia members from Tripoli have taken over the towering Grand Hotel. Others guard the airport. And although fewer dead bodies from revenge killings are discovered each morning, gunfire still echoes nightly.

Interior Ministry officials acknowledge they have no power over the looting and shooting. Criminal courts are paralyzed. When fighters are arrested, their comrades break them out of prison. With unemployment near 30 percent — and higher among young men — the Transitional National Council has scratched together a one-time payment of about $1,600 to each fighter, in the hope of drawing some of them off the street

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/in-libya-despot-is-gone-but-chaos-reigns/2012/03/31/gIQA3381nS_story_1.html


Heck of a Job, AMERICA!
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Apr, 2012 12:11 am
@hawkeye10,
It is pretty clear at this point that Sarkozy's effort to save himself with an overseas military adventure in Libya has failed, as he is expected to lose on Sat by a wide margin. Oh well, it was worth a shot. * sarcasm*
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Apr, 2012 12:30 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
The first round of voting in the presidential election was, above all, a voting out of the governing president. Sarkozy had falsely calculated that a desperate and risky campaign would see him scamper through the first round of voting with a lead, giving him momentum for the final two weeks of campaigning.

Andreas Noll says many French voters turned their backs on reality
There were two reasons his dreams didn't come true. The most important of which was that the French are sick of Nicolas Sarkozy and obviously want to give a chance to his opposite: the calm and calculated Francois Hollande. Sarkozy's mercurial personality, his need for recognition and his frequent unpresidential manner have all led people in his own camp to turn away from him. His polarizing personality has become a burden that could only be lifted by a positive economic situation. But on election day, France suffers from its highest unemployment in 30 years, a dangerously high national debt, a record trade deficit and an overall economic decline.


http://www.dw.de/dw/article/0,,15903846,00.html

Thinking that joining a civil war in Africa was going to make the French people love him more was another of his miscalculations....after all, who gives a **** about Africa when Europe is burning. If he is smart Cameron will take notice while there is still time, and resist the urge to pull that **** again, most notably at the moment in Syria.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Apr, 2012 11:55 am
@hawkeye10,
I know it's fashionable to be cynical about every politician's motivation, but I don't really think that either Cameron or Sarkozy were motivated by poll ratings. In fact I don't think Libya had any effect on the French Presidential Election at all. It was motivated by domestic concerns.

I don't think much of Cameron, but he's too smart to take advice from you. The one thing he has learned, is not to take military action without UN approval. There isn't going to be any over Syria for the forseeable future at least.

We've got local council and mayoral elections coming up in a few weeks time. Nobody is bothered about Libya one way or the other, although Afghanistan still matters. People are more concerned about tax cuts for the rich, tax hikes on pensioners and pasties, privatisation of the NHS and the £10bn loan to the IMF.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Wed 30 Apr, 2014 12:24 am
Quote:
On Tuesday, gunmen stormed Libya's parliament and started shooting, forcing lawmakers to abandon a vote on the country's next prime minister, a spokesman for the legislature said. Omar Hmeidan told the news agency Reuters that the shooting had wounded several people and linked the attack to one of the defeated candidates for prime minister, though he did not give a name.
In Tuesday's first ballot, the businessman Ahmed Maiteeq came out on top among seven candidates. The gunmen arrived before a second round between him and the runner-up, Omar al-Hasi, could take place. A member of parliament told the news agency AFP that the legislature had postponed the prime minister vote until next week.
Reining in militias has proved one of many challenges for Libya's government - no matter who has led it - since the 2011 overthrow of the dictator Moammar Gadhafi, ironically thanks in large part to groups affiliated with the well-armed groups leading attacks on the current administration. The parliament was last stormed by gunmen in early March.
The previous prime minister, Abdullah al-Thinni, resigned two weeks ago, saying gunmen had attacked his family. In October, assailants detained then-Prime Minister Ali Zidan. About a week later, gunmen killed the head of Libya's military police force.

http://www.dw.de/gunmen-storm-libyas-general-national-congress-in-tripoli/a-17601663

Quote:
Production tumbled further over the weekend, to 230,000 barrels a day—compared with 1.4 million barrels just last summer—after renewed protests forced a shutdown at the El Sharara oil field deep in the Murzuq Desert, in the southwestern part of the country.

The field is operated by Akakus Oil Operations, a joint venture of Libya's state-owned NOC, Spain'sRepsol YPF, Austria's OMV and France's Total.

Those problems are on top of disruptions in the east.

"There is a structural political issue with the eastern provinces that is preventing exports from that region, but the government is so weak that it cannot even sustain production in the west of the country," Olivier Jakob, managing director of Swiss research firm PetroMatrix, told CNBC.
.
.
.

In its February report, the International Energy Agency noted that Libyan production capacity had shrunk to 1.2 million barrels a day from 1.7 million before the 2011 civil war. The most recent data available indicate that more than 75 percent of the oil exported in November went to Europe.

But European appetite for Libya's sweet crude may be dwindling because of the continent's deteriorating refining margins.

"The other side of the equation is demand for Libyan crude," Samir Kasmi, partner at Dubai-based advisory firm CT&F, told CNBC. "The European refineries have been struggling over the last few years, and we will certainly see additional closure of capacity in the next few years."


Jakob said that "Libya is a total failure in post-revolution management. Libya, Egypt, Syria, Ukraine … the Mediterranean is growing into a greater post-revolution mess."


http://www.cnbc.com/id/101444323

HECK OF A JOB!
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:26 am
Quote:
Egypt, Emirates said to secretly strike rebels in Libya
Anne Gearan
Airstrikes by U.S. partners caught the Obama administration unaware and come as chaos in Libya deepens.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/

The Professor caught unaware??!!

NO. *******. WAY. Drunk
0 Replies
 
 

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