Sallust Trouble

Reply Tue 15 Mar, 2011 07:59 am
Hi again : ) I've stared at this for quite a while and cannot get the group of genitives in the middle of this passage (cuius ipsius atque maiorum pluruma beneficia in plebem Romanam essent.) Any direction would be welcome.

Sed ubi ille adsedit, Catilina, ut erat paratus ad dissimulanda omnia, demisso voltu, voce supplici postulare a patribus coepit ne quid de se temere crederent: ea familia ortum, ita se ab adulescentia vitam instituisse ut omnia bona in spe haberet; ne existumarent sibi, patricio homini, cuius ipsius atque maiorum pluruma beneficia in plebem Romanam essent, perdita re publica opus esse, cum eam servaret M. Tullius, inquilinus civis urbis Romae. Ad hoc maledicta alia cum adderet, obstrepere omnes, hostem atque parricidam vocare. Tum ille furibundus: "Quoniam quidem circumventus", inquit, "ab inimicis praeceps agor, incendium meum ruina restinguam."

But when that man sat nearby, Catiline, as he was prepared for concealing all things, with a dejected face and with a voice of suffering, he began to demand from the fathers that they not believe blindly this thing about him; That he was born from this family, thus he had established his life from youth so that he might have all good things in hope; to not consider him, a noble man, …, to need a ruined republic, while Marcus Tullius, a foreign resident of the city Rome, protected this (republic). Moreover, when he added other insults, all men were making noise, calling him an enemy and a traitor. Then that man, having been made furious: “Since indeed I was beset/surrounded” he said, “I was driven headlong by enemies, I will extinguish my fire by ruin (destruction).
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Reply Tue 15 Mar, 2011 08:41 am
They must not suppose that he, a patrician, who like his forefathers had rendered great service to the Roman people, would be benefited by the overthrow of the government, while its saviour was Marcus Tullius, a resident alien in the city of Rome..
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Reply Tue 15 Mar, 2011 02:34 pm
cuius ipsius atque maiorum pluruma beneficia in plebem Romanam essent
First of all, this clause modifies sibi.

If we were to go for a literal translation, it would look something like
"of whom himself and the ancestors were many benefits toward the
Roman people". Ugly.

But you can see that the genitives are modifying "benefits" ("many benefits
of . . .") meaning that these benefits were due to himself and his ancestors.
The literal translation is very tortured and so you will most often see a
translation such as Francis offered.
Reply Tue 15 Mar, 2011 07:36 pm
Thank you both. I feel better now that I know that there really isn't a nice, literal translation. I hope the rest of the translation wasn't too awful.
Reply Wed 16 Mar, 2011 08:32 am
You're welcome, wildflower.
Stop by again.
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