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@Renaldo Dubois,

Renaldo Dubois wrote:

Did you read my link above?

You seem to be an avid defender of other people's ideas. You post propaganda here, and complain about other people posting sources you don't approve of. Do you have ideas of your own? Don't you think this is a bit hypocritical?

Renaldo Dubois wrote:

Perhaps if you call me stupid again it will go away.

You seem very defensive about this kind of thing. What does it mean when you call other people stupid? does it mean the same thing as when someone calls you stupid?

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@failures art,

Umm, ah, it looks like there is nothing in your pitiful post pertaining to my link.
Dumb ass.

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@Renaldo Dubois,

Renaldo Dubois wrote:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/118399/more-americans-pro-life-than-pro-choice-first-time.

Broken link.

I used google and was able to find a working one though. Lots of interesting things in the article worth discussing.

You correctly report that more people identify as "pro-life" for the first time, but in the same poll, we see something else happen too. We see that fewer people believe in making abortion illegal.

Oh, and your article was from 2009, you should stay up to date and look at 2010 form the same source. No data for 2011, yet.

In 2009, the pro-life/pro-choice identification was: 51/42. In 2010, that ratio dropped to 47/45.

Also, this:

Quote:

Do you think abortions should be legal under any circumstances, legal only under certain circumstances, or illegal in all circumstances?

The values were:
2010 May 3-6 24/54/19/3
2009 Jul 17-19 21/57/18/4
2009 May 7-10 22/53/23/2
(the forth value represents people who replied they had no opinion)

We see 3 things:
1) The % of people who believe abortion should be legal under all circumstances has risen.
2) The % of people who believe in regulated abortions has risen.
3) The % of people who believe abortion should be illegal under all circumstances has fallen.

Questions:
Q1 - If the number of people identifying as "pro-life" has risen, but fewer people want abortion illegal, what does this mean?
Q2 - What defines "pro-life" if not the political desire to see abortion be illegal?

I'm very curious as to your replies to these question Renaldo.

Renaldo Dubois wrote:

Dumb ass.

You were just complaining about people calling you stupid, and now you're calling me names. Isn't this hypocritical?

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@Renaldo Dubois,

Renaldo Dubois wrote:

Umm, ah, it looks like there is nothing in your pitiful post pertaining to my link.

That post was in regard to a different post. I have replied to the post with the broken link to Gallup.

Here's a working link to more recent data from Gallup:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/1576/abortion.aspx

Here is a more comprehensive summary of multiple polls on the topic.:
http://www.pollingreport.com/abortion.htm

I think the 2009 and 2010 polls will ultimately be anomalous given the actual trend in people's desired policies (as I demonstrated in my last post). I think it's more likely that being "pro-life" has become politically correct, and as a term it has become less related to a person's actual desired policies. After all, the polls show that some people who identify as "pro-life" still ultimately don't want it illegal.

Renaldo Dubois wrote:

Dumb ass.

You should rely less on insults, and concentrate more on other things. Loading your posts with insults only makes you look insecure.

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@failures art,

Your poll is more recent and correct. Not a significant change. You're still a dumb ass. You can't help that. Perhaps if your posts to me were less insulting then you might get the same in return. Since you are the one who began the arrogant attitude, let's see if you can start a new trend.

I disagree that being pro life is "politically correct". Politically correctness is saying you're pro choice when you really mean you are pro abortions. The people who have to hide who they are are not the pro life people. We don't change our rhetoric like the left does. Remember global warming? Now it's called "Climate change" after telling us for years that it had nothing to do with climate.

There are many other polls that do speak of a majority of Americans being against abortions. Look once more at your poll. Only 24% of Americans believe abortions should be legal under any circumstances. That pretty much busts your point.

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you might want to go back to the same poll, renaldo, and notice that only about a quarter of the respondents want to make abortion illegal.

Dumb ass.

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@MontereyJack,

I see that in May of 2010, only 24% of Americans wanted abortions legal in any circumstance. You didn't see what you thought you saw. Look at that chart.

Dumb ass.

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@failures art,

Looks like I have found one even more recent than yours.

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/growing-majority-of-americans-say-they-are-pro-life-poll/

The recent Gallup poll revealed a similar, although less dramatic, trend. Their 2001 poll had found a 6% margin in favor of the pro-choice position (47% to 41%), compared to the 2% margin in favor of the pro-life position found in 2010.

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Pew Research Center poll Feb. 22-March 1, 2011
Do you think abortion should be legal in all cases, legal in most cases, illegal in most cases, or illegal in all cases.

Legal in all cases 18%
Legal in most cases 36%
Illegal in most cases 26%
Illegal in all cases 16%

Which totals to general support for abortion 54%
General non-support for abortion 42%.

BUT the total support for at least some abortions is therefore 80%.
And only 16% want to make all abortion illegal.

Dumb ass, renaldo.

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@Renaldo Dubois,

Renaldo Dubois wrote:

Your poll is more recent and correct. Not a significant change.

What constitutes "significant" in your opinion? Going from a 9 point spread to a 2 point spread is not significant to you given the margin of error?

Renaldo Dubois wrote:

You're still a dumb ass. You can't help that.

You contributed an poll, and I contributed my analysis along with multiple polls that support that analysis. That's not dumb.

Renaldo Dubois wrote:

Perhaps if your posts to me were less insulting then you might get the same in return. Since you are the one who began the arrogant attitude, let's see if you can start a new trend.

I haven't insulted you. I'm sorry if you've felt insulted. I can't control what you feel though.

I did ask two direct questions to you in my recent posts. Would you care to answer them?

Renaldo Dubois wrote:

I disagree that being pro life is "politically correct".

Then I believe you may have a misunderstanding of the term "politically correct." It's very PC for a Republican to be pro-life. In the Democratic party, you'll find more diversity on pro-life/pro-choice. I think the Democrats more genuinely share their opinions on this. The PC liability for conservatives is in that they court the conservative christian vote to act as their voter mobilization. They don't want to tamper with that, so it's probably just easier to be pro-life as a Republican.

Renaldo Dubois wrote:

Politically correctness is saying you're pro choice when you really mean you are pro abortions. The people who have to hide who they are are not the pro life people. We don't change our rhetoric like the left does.

Applying your same logic, then conservatives are being PC by changing it from anti-choice or anti-women to pro-life. How about we skip all of that, and let people choose what they want to call themselves? The right does plenty of rhetoric swapping. You may not be paying attention to it though.

Renaldo Dubois wrote:

Remember global warming? Now it's called "Climate change" after telling us for years that it had nothing to do with climate.

That's not "the left," it's the science community. The renaming came as we've studied the topic over the decades and learned more. Is there a problem with that? Also, can you provide a source to support that people said "it had nothing to do with climate." Thank you.

Renaldo Dubois wrote:

There are many other polls that do speak of a majority of Americans being against abortions.

I linked to a site that has combined lots of ongoing polls. Your poll does not support that a majority are against abortions, only that they identified as being pro-life by a small margin. When it comes to details, only 24% want all abortions gone. There is a large middle ground on the issue and it is one where abortion is still legal. People don't want it illegal, and some of them call themselves "pro-life" apparently.

Renaldo Dubois wrote:

Look once more at your poll. Only 24% of Americans believe abortions should be legal under any circumstances. That pretty much busts your point.

It doesn't. If it did, then having only 19% wanting abortion to be illegal under all circumstances would mean your point is busted. Like I said, the weight is in the middle, and the middle still has abortion being legal.

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renaldo dubois said:

Quote:

Remember global warming? Now it's called "Climate change" after telling us for years that it had nothing to do with climate.

It is NOT the IPGW, that was established by the UN to look into the question. It is the IPCC, the Intergovernmental Panel on CLIMATE CHANGE, and it was established in 1988, years before you even heard of the question, Renaldo. It's not a renaming--it's you having no idea of what you're talking about.The people who do the science that backs up the fact that humans are changing the climate were doing that science years before you heard anything about it, and there is far more of it than you people who only know the right wing blog meme-of-the-day ever realize. Just don't talk about something of which you know nothing. You're as wrong there as you are about the US public's support for abortion. How on earth do you manage to believe that people who tell you that we're changing the climate are saying that it has nothing to do with climate? What the hell do you think is changing? Your statement makes NO sense. But then that's not unusual.

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NASA: What's in a Name? Global Warming vs. Climate Change:

Quote:

[...]
To a scientist, global warming describes the average global surface temperature increase from human emissions of greenhouse gases. Its first use was in a 1975 Science article by geochemist Wallace Broecker of Columbia University's Lamont-Doherty Geological Observatory: "Climatic Change: Are We on the Brink of a Pronounced Global Warming?"

Broecker's term was a break with tradition. Earlier studies of human impact on climate had called it "inadvertent climate modification."2 This was because while many scientists accepted that human activities could cause climate change, they did not know what the direction of change might be. Industrial emissions of tiny airborne particles called aerosols might cause cooling, while greenhouse gas emissions would cause warming. Which effect would dominate?

For most of the 1970s, nobody knew. So "inadvertent climate modification," while clunky and dull, was an accurate reflection of the state of knowledge.
[...]
... Global warming refers to surface temperature increases, while climate change includes global warming and everything else that increasing greenhouse gas amounts will affect.
[...]
... global warming became the dominant popular term in June 1988 ... ...
But temperature change itself isn't the most severe effect of changing climate. ... ... So "global climate change" is the more scientifically accurate term. Like the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, we've chosen to emphasize global climate change on this website, and not global warming.

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It seems that this thread should be very useful in correcting many misconceived notions Renaldo may have. I'm glad he's presenting topics to be challenged on.

Religious freedom
Property rights
Due process
Abortion
Climate Studies
and in general logical fallacy and intellectual debate.

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@failures art,

Here is your link. Scroll down to the chart where it says "2010, May 3-6." It says 24% believe abortion should be legal under any circumstances. You're a liar. http://www.gallup.com/poll/1576/abortion.aspx

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@Walter Hinteler,

That's nice. You keep believing in "climate change" until they rename it. Good luck.

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@Renaldo Dubois,

I guess that proves that "pro life" people support abortions being legal.

It's kind of like your definition of "social justice". You just change the meaning so you can claim something other than what it has traditionally meant.

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@Renaldo Dubois,

You must have misunderstood something: I didn't post anything at all about my belief or what I believe nor any opinion or thoughts of mine.

But I clearly quoted (and marked is as such) NASA and gave a link to their website.

Thanks for your kind wish, though.

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@Walter Hinteler,

NASA has admitted to manipulating data on global warming.

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@parados,

24% of Americans believe in abortion on demand. That means 76% of Americans do not believe in abortion on demand. I like that.

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@Renaldo Dubois,

Renaldo Dubois wrote:

NASA has admitted to manipulating data on global warming.

Was that before or after you admitted to being a drooling idiot?

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