26
   

Are you against Christian Sharia Law?

 
 
WendyLou
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 4 Dec, 2011 01:28 am
@maxdancona,
Oh, for goodness sake. Christians learnt not to do that. How would you guys like to be stoned, firstly beginning with your testicles? How would you guys like to be put on a table and your genitalia altered arbitrarily with a razor and no anaesthetic. Give me a break!!!!!
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Sun 4 Dec, 2011 09:55 am
@WendyLou,
There are Christians who practice female genital circumcision. This is happening today in addition to the to the other barbaric practices we have already discussed.

This is how prejudice works. You want so bad to believe that your religion is better than the other religions. You blind yourself to every bad thing that people in your religion do, and you justify some pretty cruel acts. Yet you take every example of what individuals in other religions do to prove that you are in fact superior.

Take a step back and look at how idiotic these religious squabbles are. It seems to me that we should support and encourage what is good, and confront what is bad without worrying about who has what religion.

failures art
 
  2  
Reply Sun 4 Dec, 2011 10:02 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
Yours is a pointless question.

Didn't stop you.

I don't find it pointless, and the religious mingling in the training of our soldiers takes us away form subtext to context.

What the sum total of lives lost on 9/11 plus that of soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan? By a factor of what has the death toll been in these countries?

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gungasnake
 
  0  
Reply Sun 4 Dec, 2011 10:25 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
There are Christians who practice female genital circumcision.



Moooooooooo, plop, plop, plop...

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRWDIFAYjubFACSirc5kFJsSmGH89bx5zr6gVkCs5BDInut2Bsx
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gungasnake
 
  0  
Reply Sun 4 Dec, 2011 10:26 pm
@maxdancona,
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRCEfCyzFyO9YK62RJkO3JR_uxDYux6jnIHjP4CXXxzfx5kS-at
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Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Mon 5 Dec, 2011 12:55 am
@failures art,
failures art wrote:

Finn dAbuzz wrote:
Yours is a pointless question.

Didn't stop you.

I don't find it pointless, and the religious mingling in the training of our soldiers takes us away form subtext to context.

What the sum total of lives lost on 9/11 plus that of soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan? By a factor of what has the death toll been in these countries?

A
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T


That's all you can muster?

Really?
failures art
 
  3  
Reply Mon 5 Dec, 2011 01:14 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
What exactly would sate your desires? The "that's all" diminutive retort, seems to make small the numbers here, but then again, I don't think you'll go out of your way to learn what they are.

How many people have we killed? The number is one that if you were to try and relate it to your own human experience, it would not only represent every man woman and child you've ever known, but also everyone known by the whole of your family for 3 generations. It's quite unfathomable, which is one reason it remains... unfathomed.

Take that and then recognize that religious orgs and Christianity is being institutionalized into our armed services. Moreover, the Christian fatalists that exist in our political caste who glorify the notion of a great war and a return of Christ don't help. Those aren't the people who will think rationally, or for that matter humanely.

So yes Finn, sorry to ruffle your sensitive down feathers, but it's ignorant to pretend that a religious agenda is not in effect in our military right now. Christians are doing a lot of killing of Muslims. That you've found a comfortable path to indifference via the "they aren't Christian soldiers, they are American soldiers" just plain stupid.

More Muslims have died since 9/11. If you're a Muslim, and you die in Afghanistan, you were probably killed by a Christian. If that's simply circumstantial in your mind, ask yourself if you'd find an insurgent killed in conflict (who simply happened to be Muslim) to be just defending their land.

It seems you'll accept violent Muslims, but you've bought into the idea that Christianity has nothing to do with the barbarism that is taking place in the middle-east.

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Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Dec, 2011 01:26 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

There are Christians who practice female genital circumcision.


In three towns across what land?

How desperate you are to equate Christian extremisim with the Islamic fare?

Take your pick: Defend foreign religions or foreign cultures.

Your notion of fairness is really an insistence on an equivalence that doesn't exist.

For some reason you find it difficult to identify what is bent in the world, without offfering a, desperate, American equivalent.

America has its flaws but they can't compare to the brutal practices of Islamists.

Why you and ART are compelled to equate Western Culture with Islamic Culture can only be explained by a twisted leftist perception. Rant on and on as you will, but they are not equivalent.

God forbid you take a shot at current Muslim culture. It really won't make you the bigot you are so afraid of becoming.

Somehow I really think you would have no problem, what-so-ever, in harshly condeming Western (by your defintion - Christian) Culture if it insisted on ripping free the clitorisis of young women, killing homosexuals, and stoning female rape victims. Yet, you insist on comparing apples to oranges to excuse the rotten citrus fruit.

You don't like Christian extemism...No kidding?

Who does?

You're making a fool of yourself though trying to assert that Christian extremism is equivalent to Muslim extremisim.

Acknowledging that Islamists are a greater threat to the world than the extreme Christian variety is not an endorsement of Christian extremism.

For some reason you refuse to acknowledge what is true:

Islamist extremist is no better or worse than the Christian variety and yet the Islamist overwheom the Christians, in terms of death and destruction, by a ratio of 100:1

But you won't be content until we confess that there is no difference between the two,

A Rhino virus makes you sick and Ebola makes you sick and quickly kills you,

The difference betwwen the two is outstanding,and it really doesn't matter at all which regions have provided the origination of these viral infections.

Ebola is horrid, but it says nothing about the African races from which it has sprouted.

It's a bitch being so PC,

dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Dec, 2011 01:56 am
@failures art,
Amen.
maxdancona
 
  3  
Reply Mon 5 Dec, 2011 05:41 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn, do a little research before you make statements that are completely false. Female Genital circumcision is a regional issue based on cultural practices that predate the arrival of Islam and Christianity to the region. It remains a big problem in many ethnic groups regardless of religion.

Female genital circumcision is a big problem in Christian communities in Kenya Nigeria and Ethiopia for example and there are African Jewish communities who have done the practice until recently. This practice was also prevalent among Coptic Christians in Egypt until recently. There are claims that this has now been stopped (in the past decade) but whether this is true is inconclusive.

Your claim that Female Genital Circumcision is not practiced today far too much in Christian communities is simply wrong.

Quote:
Although many people believe that FGC is associated with Islam, it is not. FGC is not supported by any religion and is condemned by many religious leaders. The practice crosses religious barriers. Muslims, Christians, and Jews have been known to support FGC on their girls.

No religious text requires or even supports cutting female genitals. In fact, Islamic Shari'a protects children and protects their rights. From a Christian perspective, FGC has no religious grounds either. In fact, research shows that the relationship between religion and FGC is inconsistent at best.

However, even though religious texts don’t support FGC, some people still think the two are linked and claim religious teachings support FGC.

In six of the countries where FGC is practiced — Ethiopia, Cote d'Ivoire, Kenya, Senegal, Benin, and Ghana — Muslim population groups are more likely to practice FGC than Christian groups. In Nigeria, Tanzania, and Niger, though, the prevalence is greater among Christian groups.


http://www.unfpa.org/gender/practices2.htm#18
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Mon 5 Dec, 2011 05:49 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
I am also a but curious about the 100:1 figure you state with such passion. You made that up with no basis in fact, right? Because if not, it would be really interesting to see what numbers you used to make this calculation. But I think you just pulled it out of your ass.

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Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Dec, 2011 05:31 pm
@failures art,
Do you ignore the multitudes of Muslims who have been killed by fellow Muslims in Iraq and Afghanistan. When I was deployed to Afghanistan I only took part in 1 mass causulity incident and this was done by a muslim homicide bomber. There was a funeral for a local Gov who had been killed the week before by a group of terrorists. The bomber waited till they were in the middle of the funeral then blew himself up. I can't recall how many people I helped carry that day, but it is more then my fair share. When counting the innocents killed remember the Taliban and al qaeda.

Another thing I find funny. The anti-war crowd has been strangely silent since Obama took office. Even though more drone attacks against Pakistan have happened under Obama then ever happened under Bush.
Baldimo
 
  0  
Reply Mon 5 Dec, 2011 05:39 pm
@maxdancona,
Max you need to make up your mind. 1st of all you brought up Female Genital circumcision. Please don't expect Finn to explain this one. You have continued to point out that your issue is with "Christian Sharia Law" and how it effects the US. If thats the case why bring up practices of Christians in Africa? They are not the same Christians. US Christians do not support Female Genital circumcisions. I now know what Finn means by apples and oranges. You are not comparing the same things or even the same types of people.
maxdancona
 
  3  
Reply Mon 5 Dec, 2011 07:35 pm
@Baldimo,
Pay attention Baldimo. I didn't bring up the topic of Female Genital Circumcision. It was Wendy Lou who brought up topic as part of her discussion of the barbaric acts that "Christians have learnt[sic] not to do" (her post is the first on this page). I was simply responding by pointing out that Christians still practice Female Genital Circumcision which makes it a pretty poor example for her to bring up to support her point.

Then Finn went all kinds of crazy about "few villages" and 100:1 in defense of Wendy Lou.

I simply presented the facts. According to the people actually working to stop the practice, female genital circumcision is in fact far too prevalent in Christian communities.

If there is anyone who has explaining to do, it is Wendy Lou and Finn.

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maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Dec, 2011 07:41 pm
@Baldimo,
Quote:
Another thing I find funny. The anti-war crowd has been strangely silent since Obama took office. Even though more drone attacks against Pakistan have happened under Obama then ever happened under Bush.


This is a valid observation, but it is not surprising. Many of us on the left have quite a bit of angst about this. But look, if the election is between Obama and Gingrich or (shudders) Bachmann, we want to be damn sure that Obama wins. Sometimes keeping your mouth shut is a sign of wisdom.
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Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2011 06:08 pm
@failures art,
Again, you presume America is a Christian nation.

Again, I disagree.

When an American kills a Taliban soldier who is trying to kill him, it's not a Christian killing a Muslim.

Obviously we are not there to irradicate Islam or our soldiers would not be aiding and training Muslims.

I'm sorry, but you are being an idiot on this one.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2011 06:08 pm
@dlowan,
Ditto
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Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Dec, 2011 06:14 pm
@maxdancona,
Have you even read what I have written?

Call me an Imperialist if you will, but my comparsion is between the Arab/Persion culture and the West's.

I'm not defending Christianity and the fact that Third World Christians do all sorts of bad things only advances my point: This is a cultural, not religious conflict.
0 Replies
 
failures art
 
  2  
Reply Wed 7 Dec, 2011 03:00 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Again, you presume America is a Christian nation.

Again, I disagree.

As you well know, I don't believe this. I am not wounded by the obvious strawman you're so enthusiastically stabbing with your poorly sharpened bayonet.

It doesn't have to be a Christian nation for what I have said to be true. Further, given that our military/police institutions are being more and more religiously integrated, you're hiding behind a fig leaf.

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

When an American kills a Taliban soldier who is trying to kill him, it's not a Christian killing a Muslim.

Not so fast. It very well can be. Further, your framing of such a statement is inherently biased.

Consider if the Iranian Army was to invade your town, would you fight back? If a christian citizen fought back, would it be fair to say that the Iranians in a purely secular manner killed a radical christian in self defense?

More over, your example does precious little to address a more common situation such as unarmed civilians being gunned down at a road checkpoints due to some inability to follow directions (usually linguistic barriers). We know this kind of situation took place due to logs revealed via wikileaks. So is it shoot first, Taliban later?

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Obviously we are not there to irradicate Islam or our soldiers would not be aiding and training Muslims.

Strawman. I never said that we are there to irradicate Islam, I said Christians are killing more Muslims than the other way around.

The whole point of this is that in the USA, we have been sold the idea that we are under a religious threat from Islam. In the simplest terms, the only group in the position to and attempting to institute theological measures in the USA are Christians (and perhaps additionally Jews considering foreign policy regarding Israel). That said, on the matter of threat, use of force, and collateral death toll, we have demonstrated ourselves to be a much greater threat to human life than any enemy (state actor or non-state actor) we have been sold on. Such a justification can only exist in the mind of a person who views human life's value to be based on either (1) geography, (2) religion, or (3) both.

Said demonstrations have also had a larger American casualty number than the sum of all terrorist acts on the USA. The irony here is that these deaths are used to justify the threat when the liability for such a loss of human life, is no less (perhaps more so), rests with those who instigated said military actions.

Here are some questions for you:
1) How many innocent civilian deaths symbolizes recklessness?
2) How many innocent civilian deaths symbolizes moral indifference?
3) At what death count are we the most evil thing in the dessert?

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

I'm sorry, but you are being an idiot on this one.

You're not sorry, and I'm not an idiot.

Here, watch this video, and bathe in how ignorant you are about the religious indoctrination of our military. This is a video of a mandatory march at Camp Pendleton (just north of San Diego) to a cross erected there.

[youtube]http://youtu.be/Hq9Qk1UXG1g[/youtube]

Quote:
...that’s not a chaplain delivering that Christian sermon (beginning at 3:36 in the video); that was the battalion’s sergeant major, Jeffrey D. Moses, and the Marine speaking right before him was the battalion commander, Lt. Col. Benjamin T. Watson. Get that? The superiors that a non-Christian or non-religious Marine should be able to go to when they have an issue with being forced to participate in religious exercises are the ones who are leading these forced religious exercises...


From a 2009 USMC article on the official website:
Quote:
If you look way up to the top of the hill, you will see a cross,’ said Col. Daniel J. O’Donohue, the commanding officer of 1st Marine Regiment. ‘It is the heart of 1st Marines. It’s a monument put up by Marines for Marines


source

If you'd like more, we can talk about what has been happening at the USAF academy in Colorado in the last decade as fundamentalist christian groups from neighboring Colorado Springs have infiltrated the school.

A
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Dec, 2011 06:01 pm
@failures art,
Quote:
I said Christians are killing more Muslims than the other way around.


What alternative do you suggest fa.

You have three choices it seems to me.

1--Muslims killing more Christians than the other way around.

2--Each killing equal numbers.

3--Nobody killing anybody.

Option 3 necessitates some policy suggestions.
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