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No Respect for Teachers in the USA. Why?

 
 
littlek
 
  3  
Reply Thu 3 Mar, 2011 04:55 pm
Just saw some quotes from Gaddafi's Green Book. I thought this one was fitting for this thread.

Quote:
Mandatory education is a coercive education that suppresses freedom. To impose specific teaching materials is a dictatorial act.


Seems as if the religious conservatives in this country are exactly on the same page.
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Mar, 2011 05:06 pm
Some people do have respect for teachers:

Quote:
Fort Worth student brings sackful of change to school so teachers can keep their jobs
Posted Wednesday, Mar. 02, 2011 6 Comments Print Share Share Reprints


By Eva-Marie Ayala

[email protected]

FORT WORTH -- Second-grader Maria Meneses is afraid of losing her teachers.

She considers those at Diamond Hill Elementary School her friends, and if the Fort Worth school district has to lay off any of them, the 8-year-old would be sad.

So she walked into the school Wednesday morning with a sackful of change and handed it to her principal.

"I thought I would bring some of my money from my college fund to my school so more teachers wouldn't get fired because I don't want anyone to go away," Maria said.

"I had to do something to try and help them because they help me. Every single teacher I've had has helped me."

Maria said her classmates have been talking about how teachers might lose their jobs. When she saw more stories about school budgets on the news Tuesday night -- Fort Worth is facing up to $80 million in state funding cuts over the next two years -- she decided to help.

Principal Ellen Verreault and many office staffers cried at the girl's gesture, surprised that students are so aware of the financial struggles.

"She told me, 'I heard on the news that they're going to take you and my teachers away,' and then she started crying and hugged me," Verreault said.

"I know we're watching it closely, of course, but I also know that we're always going to take care of our kids. I didn't realize they don't know that and worry that we're not going to take care of them. It just hit home today."

Verreault said she tried to assure the girl that the school will remain open and teachers will still teach. She returned the nickels, dimes and pennies to her.

Upon hearing of Maria's offer, Superintendent Melody Johnson reiterated her vow that budget reductions would affect classrooms only as a last resort.

"I want to assure Maria, and all our students, that the board of education and the staff will do all they can so students will still have the best teachers and principals available," Johnson said in a news release.

Trustee Carlos Vasquez, who represents the area, learned of the girl's act from another parent. The school board spent Tuesday night talking about options to reduce the budget. Trustees expressed frustration throughout the night at some recommendations, such as reducing pre-kindergarten offerings.

But learning of Maria's efforts made Vasquez hopeful.

"It makes me feel good that maybe the future leaders might do better than we do," Vasquez said.


0 Replies
 
littlek
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Mar, 2011 05:08 pm
Boomer, I think many do. I think those who don't are the vociferous ones.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Thu 3 Mar, 2011 05:10 pm
I have tremendous respect for good teachers, and I'm all in favor of them making lots of money.

Problem is that there aren't a whole lot of them.

Everyone knows this to be the case, because we all have had at least 11 years of experience with them.



Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Mar, 2011 05:15 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

I have tremendous respect for good teachers, and I'm all in favor of them making lots of money.

Problem is that there aren't a whole lot of them.

Everyone knows this to be the case, because we all have had at least 11 years of experience with them.


Okay, there's nothing to disagree with there.

But those teachers who DO make lots of money drive up the average salaries of teachers in each state. That higher 'average' number is then used to justify cuts by... your political party. We see that happening right now in WI.

Cycloptichorn
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Mar, 2011 05:18 pm
@littlek,
I think so too, littlek.

I have tons of respect for teachers. I know I beef about school a lot but my gripe is rarely with the teachers.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Mar, 2011 05:22 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Good teachers are not making so much more than lousy teachers that the average salary is driven up.

That's the problem.

If our personal experience was that there are more good teachers than bad, no party could play on our resentment and disgust.

No one in Wisconsin is messing with teacher salaries, and they are not even messing with their ability to collectively bargain for salaries.

You're the Fact Man...I'm surprised you're so off the mark on this one.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Mar, 2011 05:26 pm
@talk72000,
Picture what my aunt Nan was paid.
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Mar, 2011 05:27 pm
@ossobuco,
Reminds of the movie where the policeman and his wife were making less than a plumber.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Thu 3 Mar, 2011 05:34 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Good teachers are not making so much more than lousy teachers that the average salary is driven up.

That's the problem.


Well, is this a fact? I mean, good teachers are more likely to stick with it longer than bad ones for a variety of reasons. Not only that, they are more likely to obtain additional education of their own than bad teachers are. This would lead me to believe that long-term teachers, who are paid more, are more likely to be 'good' teachers than lowly-paid ones.

That certainly was my experience. My honors and advanced classes throughout school were all taught by grizzled veterans who were very, very good at what they do.

Quote:
If our personal experience was that there are more good teachers than bad, no party could play on our resentment and disgust.


As the quote I posted on the last page said, somewhere around half the country doesn't have the ability to properly judge whether or not a teacher was good or bad. So their opinion on the matter isn't really all that interesting.

Quote:
No one in Wisconsin is messing with teacher salaries, and they are not even messing with their ability to collectively bargain for salaries.


Wrong and wrong again. I mean, you couldn't be more wrong.

In fact, the gov is asking them to immediately start paying 5.8% of their salary towards their pension - with no rise in the pension. Most currently pay nothing out of their salary directly to the pension. He's effectively asking them to take a 6% pay cut immediately.

Not only that, but Walker is directly limiting their ability to negotiate on salary issues by putting an upper bound on how much they can even ask for - they won't be allowed to have salary increases which exceed increases in the CPI.

Did you read anything about the bill in question before posting this? At all? I did.

Quote:
You're the Fact Man...I'm surprised you're so off the mark on this one.


This looks pretty funny now, doesn't it? Laughing

I'm going to recommend once again that you do EVEN THE SMALLEST BIT OF RESEARCH before posting, Finny.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Mar, 2011 05:39 pm
First of all, there are plenty of well paid teachers, despite the fact that supply far exceeds demand.

The notion that American adults simply despise the position of "teacher," is ridiculous, and fully in keeping with the Left's desire to cast everyone as a victim.

If I hear "It's for the children!" bark out of another Wisconsin teacher, I'm going to puke. It's not about the kids, it's about the teachers. Nothing wrong with that, but not only do the Leftists insist on being victims, they have to be selfless ones. Utter bullshit.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Mar, 2011 05:41 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
pffffft.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Mar, 2011 05:52 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

First of all, there are plenty of well paid teachers, despite the fact that supply far exceeds demand.


On the contrary; class size has exploded over the last two decades, and it doesn't take a genius to tell that this isn't a positive thing when it comes to education.

There's plenty of demand for teachers; there's very little money to pay them, because someone's political party constantly seeks to cut their funding.

Quote:
The notion that American adults simply despise the position of "teacher," is ridiculous, and fully in keeping with the Left's desire to cast everyone as a victim.


Good thing that I neither said that, nor do the American public feel that. In polling that looks at people's opinions and approval ratings of various professions, teacher/educator remains amongst the highest rated.

http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/positiveimage.jpg

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/MSNBC/Sections/NEWS/A_Politics/___Politics_Today_Stories_Teases/2-24-28-11.pdf

Followed by State and Local gov't employees, and man, I know that one's gotta sting.

Once again, it's RESEARCH FTW !!!! 20 seconds on Google to figure that out~!!

Quote:
If I hear "It's for the children!" bark out of another Wisconsin teacher, I'm going to puke. It's not about the kids, it's about the teachers. Nothing wrong with that, but not only do the Leftists insist on being victims, they have to be selfless ones. Utter bullshit.


Are you just going to try and ignore that you made factual errors when referring to the WI situation and what Walker is attempting to do? Like, we didn't see you just write some bullshit that you didn't put an ounce of effort into verifying before bringing it forward? It's incredibly lazy and it's why it makes you an easy target for those of us who do actual research.

It's not about the kids OR the teachers, really. It's about assholes who don't give a **** about anyone but themselves, Finn. At the end of the day you're happy to cut every single thing other than your own paycheck, and you'll put forth any bullshit reason to justify it. And then you internalize the lies and believe them. This is how a movement which is devoted to low taxes for the rich masquerades as an actual political party: by buying in to your own bullshit justifications for things.

Cycloptichorn
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Mar, 2011 06:11 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Well, in my classes, there were many aisles of kids, 30-50 in total.. Nuns, it took nuns, one per class, and the surrounding culture.

This was pre understanding of dyslexia. Or, much else.

I did fine, re the system, as I had not any of the problems we know of now.

Even then I knew some of the dumb guys were smart. And often funny.

I remember few girls on all this, which is interesting.
Back on that later.
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Mar, 2011 06:32 pm
@ossobuco,
I guess I was lucky most of my classes were 20-25 students except at university with huge lecture halls.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Mar, 2011 06:35 pm
@talk72000,
25 would have been small to me in elementary/grammar school. Like the school emptied out.
0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  2  
Reply Thu 3 Mar, 2011 06:39 pm
@ossobuco,
ossobuco wrote:

Well, in my classes, there were many aisles of kids, 30-50 in total.. Nuns, it took nuns, one per class, and the surrounding culture.



Yep.

My first grade class had 50 kids, one nun.

We all learned to read. We all got the message at home that we were to do what the nun said.

Obviously not a perfect system, problems with the cat lick church aside. I believe we came out of it with a bit more respect and discipline, and quite a bit more spine.
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Mar, 2011 06:43 pm
@chai2,
One nun wracked my knuckles but Sister Felix was an angel. She treated our sores with softness while the others burst the pimple, pressed the puss out and applied the ointment disregarding the pain.
0 Replies
 
littlek
 
  2  
Reply Thu 3 Mar, 2011 06:52 pm
One of the highest paid teachers I know is terrible.
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Mar, 2011 06:57 pm
@littlek,
littlek wrote:
Boomer, I think many do. I think those who don't are the vociferous ones.

I'm curious: Overall, what do you think about the amount of respect people are giving you in the course of your daily work? Do you agree with Joe Nation that the profession gets much less respect than it deserves?
 

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