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Chicago Teachers: Are They Nuts?

 
 
Reply Mon 10 Sep, 2012 02:12 am
on strike, wanting more money....WTF, are they not aware that tax payers are worse off than they have been in years and largely consider teachers to be BOTH over paid AND under worked?

I think we know how this ends.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 14 • Views: 5,323 • Replies: 80

 
engineer
 
  5  
Reply Mon 10 Sep, 2012 06:17 am
@hawkeye10,
Do you have some links on what the issues are? From a quick search it looks like it's healthcare and performance rankings, not so much money. Is that your take?
JPB
 
  2  
Reply Mon 10 Sep, 2012 06:38 am
@engineer,
Quote:
[Chicago Teacher's Union President] Lewis said the two sides are close on teacher compensation but the union has serious concerns about the cost of health benefits, the makeup of the teacher evaluation system and job security.
Chicago Tribune

There are a number of front page cross links at the Trib.

Personally, I think it's a mistake for the union to call a strike but I'm not a Chicago teacher.
0 Replies
 
tsarstepan
 
  3  
Reply Mon 10 Sep, 2012 07:37 am
@hawkeye10,
Teachers are in fact, UNDERpaid and OVERworked. Only idiots keep on to the urban myth that teachers don't work during the summer time. In most if not all states, they're required to take classes to keep their teaching certification up to date. Then they have administrative duties to boot as well as next year's lesson plans to write/rewrite/reformulate, etc....

Quote:
Board President David Vitale said after the teachers rejected a 16 percent pay raise over four years and a number of other benefits, there was little more that could be offered.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2012/09/10/160868924/chicago-teachers-on-strike-affecting-400-000-students
So part of their issue is in fact money.

Quote:
Lewis said the two sides are close on teacher compensation but the union has serious concerns about the cost of health benefits, the makeup of the teacher evaluation system and job security.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-strike-updates-pickets-up-as-more-talks-scheduled-20120910,0,4173856.story?page=3&sdfd?sdfds=
georgeob1
 
  2  
Reply Mon 10 Sep, 2012 08:40 am
@tsarstepan,
It appears that the core issue here is the accountability system for evaluating teacher performance. This is a very common issue in U.S. school systems. Somehow the Teachers Unions have established a system under which only they are able to evaluate their performance and under which most teachers have lifetime tenure. What a racket ! I think the news photo of the Chicago Union president tells the story well.
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  5  
Reply Mon 10 Sep, 2012 08:44 am
I'm not sure where the parties stand right now. At one point, the city was proposing increasing the school day by about 20 percent and increasing teacher pay by about 3 percent. Now, I'm not mathematician, but when an employer raises hours by more than it raises wages, that's not a pay raise, that's a pay cut. I don't know if that's still an issue, but I think even Chicago public school teachers were smart enough to see through that particular ploy.

There's a major clash of personalities here between Rahm Emmanuel and the union chief, Karen Lewis, but I think Rahmbo deserves a lot of the blame. He has been aggressively pushing charter schools, which are non-unionized, and has also been aggressive in labelling some public schools as "failures," which basically allows him to clean out the whole school -- administrators, teachers, staff, custodians, the whole schmear. Clearly, there's plenty of room for improvement in the Chicago public schools, but Emmanuel should have known he'd face push-back from the teachers on some of his policies. There's a reason why the first strike in twenty-five years has coincided with Emmanuel's first contract negotiation.
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Mon 10 Sep, 2012 08:57 am
@joefromchicago,
I generally agree that both sidesmsy appear to have been looking for a fight. However struggles over teacher accountability and school hours are common and widespread in unionized school districts across the country. The body of data confirming the lower average cost/pupil and greater effectiveness of charter schools is rather hard to ignore.

It is very difficult to avoid the conclusion that the teacher's union demands for job security & tenure; the absence of any objective performance measurement for teachers or principals; and extreme limitations on the schools ability to dismiss underperforming employees are, together, very far out of line with the overall performance of the institutions they serve.
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 10 Sep, 2012 11:00 am
Point of fact: arguing about healthcare is arguing about money.

I have been gone a long time...are chicago schools still waste lands in which only those who can't afford to get out get stuck? Rahm is a pretty skilled operator so I have to assume he knows where the public stands.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Sep, 2012 12:53 pm
@joefromchicago,
I have a few Chicago teacher friends, old friends as in older in age, and I won't be emailing them to see what they are thinking - would if we were in a more continuous emailing zone.

I somewhat follow education issues, but I'm torn. I think the unions cover incompetence, and I think other takes on competence don't fit mine, so it's like looking into a deep chasm of uselessness.

Thanks for the info, JfChicago.







<where the **** is Sister Mel when we all need her? She's the one who taught us all baseball, between english period and geography. She was the pitcher. Wonderful woman.>
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  4  
Reply Mon 10 Sep, 2012 03:12 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:
The body of data confirming the lower average cost/pupil and greater effectiveness of charter schools is rather hard to ignore doesn't exist.

FTFY
boomerang
 
  6  
Reply Mon 10 Sep, 2012 03:55 pm
Rahm Emanuel sends his kids to the U of Chicago Laboratory School (http://www.ucls.uchicago.edu/), an amazing place that looks NOTHING like CPS. Why isn't he pushing for reforms to make public schools more like the Lab School instead of this idiotic NCLB and RttT baloney?
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Sep, 2012 04:13 pm
@boomerang,
pol..
boomerang
 
  4  
Reply Mon 10 Sep, 2012 06:44 pm
@ossobuco,
Politicians and school board members should be required to send their kids to the public school in their district.
Irishk
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Sep, 2012 06:56 pm
@boomerang,
They're special people, though -- no unionized schools for their kids. The mayor probably also has armed body guards for protection.
MMarciano
 
  5  
Reply Mon 10 Sep, 2012 07:10 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

WTF, are they not aware that tax payers are worse off than they have been in years and largely consider teachers to be BOTH over paid AND under worked?



Just when I thought you had already proven yourself to be the biggest ass on the forum you come up with this asinine, batty, birdbrained, crazy, daffy, daft, dull, dumb, fatuous, foolhardy, foolish, harebrained, imbecile, imbecilic, inane, insane, lunatic, moronic, senseless, silly, squirrelly, thick-witted, unintelligent comment.
tsarstepan
 
  5  
Reply Mon 10 Sep, 2012 07:18 pm
@MMarciano,
MM? Hawkeye is most definitely a closeted Tea Party extraordinaire. He'll wear that insult as a badge of honor not knowing its an actual insult.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Mon 10 Sep, 2012 07:50 pm
@tsarstepan,
tsarstepan wrote:

MM? Hawkeye is most definitely a closeted Tea Party extraordinaire. He'll wear that insult as a badge of honor not knowing its an actual insult.

I am pointing out facts, which has nothing to do with my politics. Public sector employment has shrunk by almost a million post great recession because there is no political will to carry public sector employment at the old levels. Liberals have little love for more taxes either, which is how we end up with such high sin taxes, user fees when we cause the fire department to roll, and government sponsored gambling. These are the revenue streams the majority will sign off on, taxes not so much. The great recession and the resulting financial body blow that the middle class has taken only increased the resistance to higher taxes.
0 Replies
 
Irishk
 
  2  
Reply Mon 10 Sep, 2012 08:34 pm
To lighten things up a little, one news agency is reporting that Emanuel went to a church that was providing day care for some of the kids affected and one of them had a sign picturing him with horns Laughing

He's so going to cave Smile
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Sep, 2012 07:50 am
@tsarstepan,
I agree to a point - I know a good teacher does work during the summer, planning for the upcoming year. But the things they are fighting for - better healthcare, evaluations, etc. are no different than other jobs. The expectation of not being evaluated is crazy - everyone is evaluated for their job and if they do not meet expectations due to their performance, their raises/and future job potentials for promotions, etc should reflect that.

I think this is the issue for me with their strike - they are fighting for things that no other job in the private sector has. And looking for raises now, when most workers paying their salaries are getting little if any raises - seems odd and greedy to me.

But I do have to this is viewing from the outside and not being in Chicago so this is definately just an outside view.
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Sep, 2012 07:55 am
@joefromchicago,
I can compare the cost of public vs. private having just moved my kids to public (which I am happy with thus far). We paid about $7k tuition each for our children in private (this would be elementary age - goes up for middle and high). The public school system costs - and this is public data provided in helping to compare school districts is above $10k for all the various public schools. Some of the worst school districts actually spend more per student.

So why can private schools charge significantly less per student?
 

 
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