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The impending Government Shutdown

 
 
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Apr, 2011 04:55 pm
@sozobe,
Nice, Soz.
0 Replies
 
failures art
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Apr, 2011 04:57 pm
@sozobe,
Of course they want a compromise. They aren't dumb. They just won't want to be a part of said compromise. It's drawing straws to be who gets tea party fall-out.

My question is more to the Democrats in office and why these kinds of battles are always fought in Republican terms. I think it was put best that if we keep talking about this in terms of numbers, the GOP wins over and over and controls the dialog. People need to know what those numbers are and what they represent. That, or in all this discussion of numbers, they need to see over and over and over what the numbers are on the Bush tax cuts and what they mean to the budget.

If the deficit is really the concern (it isn't) of politicians (not just the GOP), we need to see this kind of self destructive cuts end.

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djjd62
 
  2  
Reply Fri 8 Apr, 2011 04:59 pm
why is it, that whenever i read anything about politicians. i'm reminded of the warning that Frank Zappa gave to parents in the liner notes for the album Freak Out

"If your children ever figure out just how lame you really are, they'll murder you in your sleep"
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Apr, 2011 05:11 pm
@failures art,
failures art wrote:

Of course they want a compromise. They aren't dumb. They just won't want to be a part of said compromise.


Well, they were dumb as of a couple of hours ago. The compromise rhetoric is very new.

Quote:
It's drawing straws to be who gets tea party fall-out.


Michele is the tea party queen (she started the tea party caucus) and she's saying "compromise already, let's get this over with and move on to bigger things."

Quote:
My question is more to the Democrats in office and why these kinds of battles are always fought in Republican terms.


I'm actually very happy with Democrat messaging for this one. They really hit the fact that it's about social issues, not spending. That leads directly to people blaming the Republicans for the shutdown, which leads directly to people like Bachmann backing down (though of course she isn't backing down, she's just gearing up for a bigger fight, yeah, that's the ticket).

This still is not a done deal of course but that's one of the most promising things I've seen so far that compromise might still happen.

If I was a little more cold-blooded I'd wish for the Republicans to stay inflexible, then get the brunt of people's rage when the shutdown actually happens. But I don't actually want a shutdown.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Apr, 2011 05:20 pm
@sozobe,
Quote:
Michele is the tea party queen (she started the tea party caucus) and she's saying "compromise already, let's get this over with and move on to bigger things."

This is the same Michele Bachmann that stated she wasn't going to vote for it no matter what the compromise was.

Quote:
Bachmann said that she “cannot vote for the current compromise that we’re looking at. I don’t think that it’s sufficient, because primarily, it doesn’t include the defunding of Obamacare.”
0 Replies
 
Irishk
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Apr, 2011 05:22 pm
@djjd62,
djjd62 wrote:
why is it, that whenever i read anything about politicians. i'm reminded of the warning that Frank Zappa gave to parents in the liner notes for the album Freak Out

"If your children ever figure out just how lame you really are, they'll murder you in your sleep"

Laughing
That's actually a little too good for the politicians. I'd be in favor of at least a little torture Smile
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Apr, 2011 05:41 pm
@sozobe,
Quote:
But I don't actually want a shutdown.


Me either, because it's going to be a big problem.

But I truly believe it's going to happen, because Boehner is at the edge and backing down now will wreck his credibility with his own caucus and likely force him to get Democrats to cover him on the spending bill. That would have extremely negative impacts for his ability to argue the budget next year.

This is what happens when you go all in...

Cycloptichorn
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Apr, 2011 06:36 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
More movement:

Quote:
The likelihood of a war-time federal government shutdown—the first in American history—diminished dramatically on Friday night as all parties began reviewing, with the goal of approving, a broad array of cuts and a short-term bill to keep the government operating while the details are put into legislative language for full congressional action next week.

While leadership staff insist there is no deal yet, that caution belies significant progress in narrowing long-standing differences and the widening assumption in both parties that a shutdown will be averted and all that remains unknown is the precise procedural steps that will walk everyone back from the abyss.


http://www.nationaljournal.com/white-house-reviewing-terms-of-spending-deal-20110408

(Posted about half an hour ago.)
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Apr, 2011 06:49 pm
@sozobe,
TPM:

Quote:
GETTING CLOSE TO A DEAL
A Democratic source tells TPM that both sides are close to putting together a budget deal with $39 billion in spending cuts and agreements to remove the controversial policy riders Republicans were fighting for. That's a billion more in cuts than Democrats were saying all day today was their maximum number. So some additional concessions apparently made there by the Democrats.

This isn't a done deal yet, our source says. But the negotiators for both sides are sold on it, and hoping to make it work.

Speaker Boehner's office is locked down in a leadership meeting, presumably as Boehner pitches the deal to his top lieutenants.

More soon ...


http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2011/04/getting_close_to_a_deal.php?ref=fpblg
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Apr, 2011 06:58 pm
@sozobe,
Think he'll be able to sell it to his conference?

Cycloptichorn
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Apr, 2011 07:03 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
I think it comes from the conference -- that they're spooked that they'll get blamed and they're looking for a graceful way out.

Could still go south of course but I think that's where things are now.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Apr, 2011 07:21 pm
@sozobe,
sozobe wrote:

I think it comes from the conference -- that they're spooked that they'll get blamed and they're looking for a graceful way out.

Could still go south of course but I think that's where things are now.


Yup, but I think what's going on here is that he's previously publicly said that he wouldn't sign any deal that couldn't get 218 Republican votes in the House. That means that a bloc of Republicans as small as 25 could make him eat that promise, which I doubt Boehner wants to do, or hold the bill up. They probably feel rather emboldened by the fact that holding out this long has gotten the Dems to give up more and more concessions this week. So it's just not as cut and dry as I would hope.

I'm sure they'll get it passed one way or the other and put off the shutdown another two weeks, when the debt limit extension vote comes up Rolling Eyes I have a bad feeling that this thread is going to get more use than I thought earlier in the year.

Cycloptichorn
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Apr, 2011 08:07 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Damn. They are putting me to sleep for the night. If I wake up tomorrow there may be some resolution.
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Apr, 2011 08:40 pm
@realjohnboy,
CNN is reporting an agreement has been reached.
0 Replies
 
failures art
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Apr, 2011 09:23 pm
The DC thunderdome has been delayed...

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0 Replies
 
failures art
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Apr, 2011 09:31 pm
Here are some screen shots from John Boehner's official facebook wall:

pic 1
pic 2

See more of the love in here: http://www.facebook.com/johnboehner

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failures art
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Apr, 2011 09:43 pm
@failures art,
Out of curiosity, I thought I'd check out the other power players walls to see what people were thinking/feeling.

Reid's doesn't have much action: http://www.facebook.com/HarryReid

Obama's doesn't either: http://www.facebook.com/barackobama

I know this doesn't mean much, but I think some sort of observation can be made about who is upset about the deal/compromise. That's not to say the compromise is good or bad, but that it exists at all.

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0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Apr, 2011 09:29 am
@realjohnboy,
realjohnboy wrote:

Remember that this is all about the 2011 fiscal year ending in Oct. I think that all parties (the Dems, the Repubs and the Teaparty folks) will decide to punt and move on to the 2012 budget.

That's true - this compromise refers to the budget submitted by Obama last year. It should have been voted on back when Democrats held majorities, not now; typically it wasn't. The 2011 budget compromise involves cuts of $79 billion from the original submission - so now it's time to move on the the main issue, the debt ceiling. The plan, as far as I can tell, is taken from the Russian playbook after Borodino - retreat, retreat, and wait for winter.

The debt ceiling deadline isn't the one Geithner mentions, btw - it's 6 to 8 weeks after that. The Treasury can stop issuing securities for a while, tap the Exchange Stabilization Fund, get the Fed to mobilize the half-trillion in gold sitting in Fort Knox. Only then does winter set in - aka national bankruptcy.
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Apr, 2011 10:12 am
Dear Americans

It should be clear to you now, that neither party has any integrity, nor the will to uphold their convictions. Kindly vote for none of us in the next elections, as that will only continue to encourage our stupid behaviour.

Regards
All Your Politicians
failures art
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Apr, 2011 11:33 am
@djjd62,
Yes yes yes. Those dumb politicians. If only they would listen to the wealth of knowledge from the citizens. Certainly, they had an abundant list of options carefully drawn up. I'm being sarcastic, but really, I do get tired of us unloading so much blame on our politicians as if only they mattered. Politicians have plenty of dumb and greedy ideas, with poor integrity. So do we.

In short: What was the right thing to do? Let the gov shut down? I think lots of this sucks, but bitter pill or not: swallow. There are bigger fights to be had, and they are coming.

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0 Replies
 
 

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