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Military History: 5 Star Generals

 
 
Reply Sat 12 Feb, 2011 10:20 pm
This topic came up over dinner tonight.

I said that I thought that 5 stars were reserved for former military members who became President of the U.S because nobody in the military was allowed to outrank the President.

Someone questioned this.

Now I'm not so sure my claim is correct.

Is it?
 
dyslexia
 
  4  
Reply Sat 12 Feb, 2011 10:40 pm
Five-Star Generals and Dates of Rank:

General of the Army George C. Marshall: December 16, 1944

General of the Army Douglas MacArthur: December 18, 1944

General of the Army Dwight D. Eisenhower: December 20, 1944

General of the Army Henry H. Arnold: December 21, 1944
(Redesignated General of the Air Force pursuant to Public Law 58, 81st Congress, approved May 7, 1949)

General of the Army Omar N. Bradley: September 20, 1950
Butrflynet
 
  2  
Reply Sat 12 Feb, 2011 10:41 pm
@boomerang,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_of_the_Army_%28United_States%29

General of the Army (GA)[1] is a five-star general officer and is the second highest possible rank in the United States Army. A special rank of General of the Armies, which ranks above General of the Army, does exist but has only been conferred twice in the history of the Army. A General of the Army ranks immediately above a general and is equivalent to a Fleet Admiral and a General of the Air Force; there is no established equivalent five-star rank in the Marine Corps, nor the other three Federal uniformed services: the Coast Guard, PHSCC, and NOAA Corps). Often referred to as a "five-star general," the rank of General of the Army is reserved for war-time use only and is not currently active in the U.S. military.


http://www.historyguy.com/5-star-military.htm

In December of 1944, in the midst of World War Two, the new Five-Star officer rank was created, allowing generals and admirals to place a total of five stars on their uniforms and flags. In all, four Army generals, four Navy admirals and one Air Force general have held this rank.

The Army's Five-Star Generals:

General George C. Marshall

General Douglas MacArthur

General Dwight D. Eisenhower

General Omar N. Bradley



The Navy's Five-Star Fleet Admirals:

Admiral William D. Leahy

Admiral Ernest J. King

Admiral Chester Nimitz

Admiral William F. "Bull" Halsey



The Air Force Five-Star General:

General Henry "Hap" Arnold --Note: General Arnold actually was awarded this rank twice. In 1944, he received his fifth star while the air force was still part of the Army. It was then known as the U.S. Army Air Forces (AAF). After the AAF separated from the Army in 1947 and was renamed the United States Air Force, Arnold became the new service's only five-star General of the Air Force.
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Feb, 2011 10:44 pm
@dyslexia,
So I'm wrong.

As usual.

So how does this 5 Star thing work? From what I understand, it isn't a typical rank.
dyslexia
 
  2  
Reply Sat 12 Feb, 2011 10:54 pm
@boomerang,
political designated rank.
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Feb, 2011 10:57 pm
Obviously I'm wrong or Kennedy would have had to have also been a five star General (just thinking within my lifetime here) because he was in the military...... and Bush the senior..... and Ronald Regan.....

Where did I get my stupid "knowledge"?

tsarstepan
 
  2  
Reply Sat 12 Feb, 2011 11:27 pm
@boomerang,
Presidents don't need the status as 5 star general as they are already defined as Commander and Chief which is the highest ranking officer in all the armed forces.

The 5 star status as Butrflynet indicated is a rare commission/promotion.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Sun 13 Feb, 2011 05:08 am
@boomerang,
No, you're claim is not correct. During the Second World War, Douglas MacArthur, Dwight Eisenhower and George Marshall all held the rank of General of the Army (with an insignia of five stars). There are those who claim that Grant was the first to hold this rank, in 1865--i don't know that he ever held that rank. In the case of MacArthur, Eisenhower and Marshall, these ranks were given for largely political reasons. MacArthur complained that he got no respect or support from the Navy--promoting him in that manner gave him a higher nominal rank than almost every naval officer with whom he would have to deal. However, Marshall was his boss, so Marshall would have to be promoted with an earlier date of rank, in order to continue to be his military boss. Eisenhower was given the rank so that no one could say there were any favoritism--in other words, the commander of a theater (in Ike's case, the ETO) would have that rank. On the same basis, Nimitz was promoted to Fleet Admiral of the United States Navy, the equivalent rank. Henry "Hap" Arnold was also given the rank, as the highest ranking Army Air Force officer (the Air Force was still a branch of the Army at that time).

The reason given for these ranks was to give American officers a rank equivalent to European Field Marshalls. People allege that John "Blackjack" Pershing held the same rank, and he was given a special title of "General of the Armies" for political reasons at the time that the other "five star" ranks were handed out. The last officer to be awarded this rank was Omar Bradley, after the Second World War.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Sun 13 Feb, 2011 05:23 am
Well, i see folks must have run off to Wikipedia. At any event, the reasons for reviving the rank were political. MacArthur was now operating closely with the Navy, something which the Navy had managed to avoid up to that point--they really hated him. Talk to George OB1 sometime, he still fulminates against MacArthur. If there were to be an invasion of Japan, MacArthur would have commanded the Army and Army Air Forces, and it would not have been acceptable for naval officers to question his authority. Nimitz (who didn't like him, but could manage to work with him) was given his rank to mollify naval officers. HapArnold was given his rank to mollify Army Air Force officers, who were already privately calling for an independent service. Eisenhower was given his rank because he had to work with Field Marshall Montgomery, a whiney little bitch who was a disaster as a field commander, and who had convinced himself and almost everyone in England that he was a military genius. Giving Eisnhower that rank was done to quell, at least publicly, the rewsentment of English officers. George Marshall was given the rank first, because in his position, he had to outrank MacArthur, Eisnehower and Arnold.

The dodge about European field marshalls was the public excuse for awarding the rank.
0 Replies
 
blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Feb, 2011 07:10 am
do 5 star generals get anything cool like unlimited Starbucks or Red Lobster?
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Feb, 2011 07:40 am
Thanks for the history lesson!

My day is just getting started and I feel smarter already.
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Feb, 2011 08:28 am
Okay.... one more question....

In trying to recall how I came to know this bit of misinformation I was thinking about when there was rampant speculation that Colin Powell was going to run for President.

Would they have awarded him a 5th star had he been elected?
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Feb, 2011 09:28 am
@boomerang,
I don't believe so. The rank is not just an honorary rank; it's given during active military service.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Feb, 2011 09:34 am
@DrewDad,
Grant was masde General of the ARmy at a rank of 4 star. The design (and possibly the number was somewhat discretionary at that time, but 5 stars wasnt an option). Grant had 3 rows of 4 so did Sherman. When Sheridan got the rank , he had the decoration changed to 2 stars separated by an eagle.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Feb, 2011 10:43 am
@blueveinedthrobber,
You have a very strange idea of what "cool" is.

They do get free lap dances though.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Feb, 2011 11:11 am
@boomerang,
boomerang wrote:
Okay.... one more question....

In trying to recall how I came to know this bit of misinformation I was thinking about
when there was rampant speculation that Colin Powell was going to run for President.

Would they have awarded him a 5th star had he been elected?
No, boomer.
Remember: President and Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces of the United States is a CIVILIAN position
(tho in one engagement, Abe Lincoln made himself the actively commanding general thereof).

Indeed, Secretary of Defense and (lower rank) Secretary of the Army
are also civilians who outrank all military personnel.

When Ike ran for President in 1952, he resigned his commission.
In his farewell address to the nation in 1961
(the one in which he complained about the "military-industrial complex")
he asked Congress to restore his rank as an O-11; he got it back again.

George Washington and John Pershing were granted
the rank of General of the Armies of the United States O-12





David
dyslexia
 
  4  
Reply Sun 13 Feb, 2011 11:23 am
@OmSigDAVID,
and Robert Welch of John Birch Society referred to General/President Eisenhower as a "communist." Personally I see little difference between the Tea Bag movement and the John Birch Society.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Feb, 2011 11:41 am

During the 2nd World War, there was some consideration
of copying the Europeans by creation of the higher rank of General Field Marshal,
but George C. Marshall was Army Chief of Staff.
Accordingly, he 'd have been Marshal Marshall.
Thay thawt better of it, not creating that rank.





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Sun 13 Feb, 2011 11:49 am
@dyslexia,
dyslexia wrote:
and Robert Welch of John Birch Society referred to General/President Eisenhower as a "communist."
Personally I see little difference between the Tea Bag movement and the John Birch Society.
Yes, I remember, and the Queen of England too.

I sympathized with and supported their very worthy goals,
but (tho I had numerous friends in the JBS) I chose not to join.
I thawt and still believe that Robert Welch was a very fine man,
with a heart of GOLD, but he was not fully in touch with reality.

The JBS was limited ONLY to fighting communism.
We WON that war.

The Tea Party movement supports Original Americanism, more broadly
including personal liberty, Individualism, hedonism and laissez faire capitalism.





David
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Feb, 2011 12:49 pm
@boomerang,
Presidents had even taken direct command of troops in the field.

Washington in putting down the whiskey rebellion and Madison in the fighting around Washington DC during the war of 1812.

Question for your guys amusement what President was then given the command of the army as a General after his Presidential term was over with?
0 Replies
 
 

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