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Mad Cow Disease Found!

 
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Dec, 2003 10:39 am
Just maybe it made some kind of jump from sheep (scrapie) to cattle in Europe.
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Acquiunk
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Dec, 2003 10:43 am
I do not think the European and North American outbreaks are connected, at least on the level of the spread of an infection from one continent to another. They may be connected in that a naturally occurring condition is spread within a herd by similar animal husbandry practices.
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Piffka
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Dec, 2003 11:06 am
Acquiunk wrote:
There are it would seem to me three possibilities here. First that the infected cow was feed infected feed, which would seem to me unlikely. Second, as the Japanese evidence suggests, prions can occur naturally or are the result of some environmental condition. Prions are the reverse transcription of a protein that is crucial for the retention of memory. The third possibility is that the disease has jumped from one species (Elk) to another (cattle).


I am curious why you think that it is unlikely a cow was fed infected feed?
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Acquiunk
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Dec, 2003 11:39 am
Why do I think it is unlikely that the animal was feed infected feed? Because that has been the focus of all attempts to prevent the spread of the disease and is easily accomplished compared to efforts such as the Japanese to test all animals (they have a very small herd). As the beef industry is an important export sector the USDA has been particularly vigilant in this area. Also contrary to all the hype, the disease does not spread easily. The protein in question is naturally occurring in the brains of mammals and is crucial in memory retention processes. The prion that causes the disease is simply a revers image of that protein (the atoms are arrange in the opposite manner). It seems more likely that this reversal occurs naturally periodically in very small numbers and is not usually a problem unless certain cultural practices cases it to spread. As there as been no wide spread out break of mad cow disease but rather two isolated cases it seems more likely that increased awareness and improved testing procedures are revealing a natural process that we were previously unaware of.
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husker
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Dec, 2003 01:09 pm
Well - I've actually purchased and ate the ground beef from Albertson's who have purchased from an infected distributor. Oh boy! I feel the chances are small but still might be better than those of winning the lottery and that really sucks cause I want more favorable chances to win the Powerball.
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husker
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Dec, 2003 01:11 pm
Next spring or so back to home grown beef - where I can see what we're feeding at my buddies.
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husker
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Dec, 2003 01:35 pm
What you need to know about this disease

The worldwide spread of 'mad-cow' disease
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blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Dec, 2003 01:53 pm
like the cow says eat more chikin...
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Piffka
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Dec, 2003 03:29 pm
Acquiunk wrote:
Why do I think it is unlikely that the animal was feed infected feed? Because that has been the focus of all attempts to prevent the spread of the disease and is easily accomplished compared to efforts such as the Japanese to test all animals (they have a very small herd). As the beef industry is an important export sector the USDA has been particularly vigilant in this area. Also contrary to all the hype, the disease does not spread easily. The protein in question is naturally occurring in the brains of mammals and is crucial in memory retention processes. The prion that causes the disease is simply a revers image of that protein (the atoms are arrange in the opposite manner). It seems more likely that this reversal occurs naturally periodically in very small numbers and is not usually a problem unless certain cultural practices cases it to spread. As there as been no wide spread out break of mad cow disease but rather two isolated cases it seems more likely that increased awareness and improved testing procedures are revealing a natural process that we were previously unaware of.


I see. I haven't seen anything online that agrees with you, Acquiunk, but it is an interesting thought. Maybe you're on to something. Even if it is a natural process, though, I am convinced that cows, sheep, goats, and other natural vegetarians should not ever be fed animal by-products. I think that it is unnatural and bound to lead to problems. We like to think that these poor creatures stand in tall clover and browse about all day. Anything less than that quickly deteriorates into a very ugly scene.
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Acquiunk
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Dec, 2003 06:28 pm
Piffka, if you are not already familiar with them you might look at these two web sites. The first is by Stanley Prusiner, the discoverer of Prions, I have included a link that leads directly to his article.

http://www.albany.net/~tjc/prion-structure.html

The Prion Diseases by Stanley Prusiner
http://www.albany.net/~tjc/prions.html#1

The second is a more general article on Prions with several useful links.

http://www.microbe.org/news/prions.asp
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Acquiunk
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Dec, 2003 08:20 pm
More on prions

The function of normal prions
http://www.chemsoc.org/chembytes/ezine/2002/jones_apr02.htm

http://www.dartmouth.edu/~biochem/Supattapone/research.html
see the link for history of prion research

Prion diseases
http://www-micro.msb.le.ac.uk/3035/prions.html
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Dec, 2003 11:23 pm
When I read this morning that
Quote:
The Holstein was unable to walk on its own when it arrived at the slaughterhouse, a "downer" in industry slang.

Despite its incapacity, a USDA vet cleared the animal for slaughter after being told the cow had suffered injuries during a recent calving; a postmortem confirmed that assessment.


and that authorities are unable to track, where the cow is from, I'm wondering about this naïvity - after all the experiences in other countries, I mean.

(Even the personal in the butcher shop can tell me here, where's my piece of steak from.Under Canadian rules. And the carcass would have been held until the results of tests for bovine spongiform encephalopathy were known, at least.)
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Acquiunk
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Dec, 2003 10:57 am
The problem with this cow is not the lack of records but the lack of a central depository for those records. According to todays New York Times, the cow was purchased in October 2001 but they do not know yet whether it was purchased from a live stock market or off a farm. As the owner bought more then 100 cattle from different farms that month the problem now is to shift through the records of each farm and cattle market to find this cow, which may take several days or weeks. The lack of this central registry and tracking system is the result of the continued resistance to "intrusive government control" that characterizes much the western states attitude toward government regulation. They don't turn down the farm subsidies and price supports though.
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Acquiunk
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Dec, 2003 11:17 am
Link

This was posted by Bi-Polar-Bear


The cow was imported two years ago from Alberta Canada as part of a herd of 74 cattle.

Link to article
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Piffka
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Dec, 2003 11:49 am
Acquiunk wrote:
Piffka, if you are not already familiar with them you might look at these two web sites. The first is by Stanley Prusiner, the discoverer of Prions, I have included a link that leads directly to his article.

http://www.albany.net/~tjc/prion-structure.html

The Prion Diseases by Stanley Prusiner
http://www.albany.net/~tjc/prions.html#1

The second is a more general article on Prions with several useful links.

http://www.microbe.org/news/prions.asp



Who knew?... governmental coverups, blame games and worse. Acquiunk -- That second website is fairly strident, have things really gotten that bad? And the estimate for number of people who'd die from mad cow disease in England, ten million by 2010?
Quote:
Formerly a rare disease that affected less than one per million in most countries, one worst case scenario predicts that the incidence of CJD in the UK will escalate from, on average, fifty annually to claim ten thousand Britons by the year 2000, and a further ten million by the year 2010. Another predicts that half the British people, some 30 million, will be left Brain-dead by CJD.


I am sorry about all the victims of the disease and I hate that so many animals have been killed, needlessly. The prions sound horrifying -- malevolent protein, sort of an evil twin, <shudder> worse than a virus! When something that fearful strikes, everyone runs for cover.
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blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Dec, 2003 11:55 am
It would be pretty funny really, if it was Big Macs that finally brought us down.......
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Acquiunk
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Dec, 2003 12:12 pm
I have a sister who was teaching at the University of London during the 1990's. She can not now give blood, not for any known infection but just as a cautionary rule. Nobody knows what the long term out look is so we just ignore it.
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Piffka
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Dec, 2003 01:04 pm
I'm sorry to hear that, Acquiunk. I truly hope that your entire family can continue to ignore that fear.

Here is an interesting view from New Zealand:
Making a meal of perception
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Dec, 2003 02:09 pm
There's an article in today's newspaper that claims that the infected cow came from Canada. Maybe, somebody can confirm this story.
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Piffka
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Dec, 2003 02:15 pm
CI -- That's what that link said that Acquiunk posted from BPB's thread.

It also said the cow was 6 1/2 years old, two years older than the owner thought, which has ramifications because of the 1997 ban.
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