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THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ VI

 
 
Kara
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Jan, 2004 04:23 pm
Here's a topical twist on an old joke...


A man had 50-yard-line tickets for the Super Bowl. As he sits down, a man comes down the aisle and asks if anyone is sitting in the seat next to him. "No," he says, "The seat is empty."

"This is incredible," said the man. "Who in their right mind would have a seat like this for the Super Bowl, the biggest sporting event in the world, and not use it?"

He says, "Well, actually, that seat belongs to me. I was supposed to come with my wife, but she passed away. This is the first Super bowl we haven't been to together since we got married in 1967."

"Oh, I'm sorry to hear that. That's terrible. But couldn't you find someone else -- a friend or relative, or even a neighbor to take the seat?".

The man shakes his head. "No, they're all at the funeral."
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Jan, 2004 05:01 pm
Good joke, except I don't think that will apply to this one. Wink He's gonna attend the funeral too!
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Kara
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Jan, 2004 10:30 pm
c.i.... Laughing
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Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Jan, 2004 09:23 am
B, MUWAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Jan, 2004 09:27 am
As it is .... clearly as it is
Quote:


Opinion

DS 31/01/04
Americans in Iraq are staring civil war in the face

BEIRUT: As US President George W. Bush was spinning his web of deceit to justify invading Iraq, Ali Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani, the former president of Iran and Saddam Hussein's most formidable opponent during the 1980-88 war, was asked who he thought would lead Iraq once the "Great Dictator" had been swept aside. "Another Saddam," he replied.
Bush would have liked nothing better than to find a new Iraqi strongman, as advised by Rafsanjani, a wily and pragmatic cleric who was the eminence grise behind the puritanical Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini. The problem is that there's no one around capable of whipping Iraq's fractious sects and ethnic groupings into a cohesive, functioning whole.
Bush's administration is now engulfed in a political maelstrom of its own making as it struggles to pacify a country, one of those troublesome hybrids fashioned out of the ruins of the Ottoman Empire by the victorious allies after World War I, that had been held together for decades only by Saddam Hussein's brutal power. (CONT)



CONT ....
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Jan, 2004 12:40 pm
Sorry McG cant provide the link you requested. I probably just dreamt it anyway.
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roger
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Jan, 2004 12:47 pm
Aw, we all do a ton of reading without taking notes, Steve. "I seem to remember" or some such, is a fair disclaimer.
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Kara
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Jan, 2004 09:19 pm
There is much discussion and legitimate outrage in recent days over intelligence failure, or selective use of same to support a political goal. No matter where the truth lies, we and Britain have learnt a bitter lesson with the events of this past year. The pain of seeing soldiers die daily in a war that should not have happened becomes a reality that might deter such inclinations in the future.

The buck stops at George Bush. He has no way of dodging responsibility for what he did or allowed to happen on his watch. He must now take the blame for something that will go down in history as as the hallmark of his presidency. He would like to say "we" were all misled by faulty intelligence. This "we" stuff won't go down. He is and must be the bottom line for accountability.
0 Replies
 
JamesMorrison
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Jan, 2004 10:52 pm
BM
0 Replies
 
JamesMorrison
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Feb, 2004 12:22 am
I had to get a new computer, mainly because of my stupidity and "head in the sand mentality" towards Norton type security concepts. Therefore, I am ignorant of the most modern posts here but found dyslexia's phrase:

"faith based intelligence"

Well,... pointed! But enough excuses.

Kara, regarding your statement:

"The buck stops at George Bush. He has no way of dodging responsibility for what he did or allowed to happen on his watch. He must now take the blame for something that will go down in history as the hallmark of his presidency."

Blame or responsibility Hmmmm.... The Afghans now boast of a new constitution hard won via tribal compromise. Important here is the compromise so promulgated. Granted the compromise that no law will be passed against Islamic law, but think about it, is that a bad thing? Does such a law work against modern thinking? I might add that the Koran allows for women to have property and the right of said sex to sue for divorce. The constitution also allows for the rights of women in its society. This can only be a good thing. Perhaps those Afghans so inclined "Know not what they do". But the proof of the pudding is in the eating. Are they really ready to respect the wishes of half their society after all? Truly an interesting event.

But suppose that these events happen in Iraq with equal success? Will you then be equally intent on assigning responsibility to the present administration?

Respectfully,

JM
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Feb, 2004 04:59 am
Quote:
The Afghans now boast of a new constitution hard won via tribal compromise.

JM

I think I understand your point...positives have evolved out of US action in Afghanistan/Iraq. Sure.

But the sentence above is a really fine example of how a claim can be factually true and yet, because of what is left out, present a picture (and conclusion) which is false. It's a bit like sitting in an emergency waiting-room after your friend has had high speed car crash and he's lost a leg and his lungs are collapsed and there's internal hemoraging and brain damage and the surgeon enters all smiley faced and says, "Well, we finally fixed that wrist he buggered up as a kid!"
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Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Feb, 2004 07:43 am
From what I understand the opium crop has made UBL one happy terrorist. Credit has been give to the excellent tillage provided by the US bombers. 'The bombs have made the rocks into fertile soil' says a poor poppy cultivator.
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Kara
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Feb, 2004 08:34 am
Quote:
But suppose that these events happen in Iraq with equal success? Will you then be equally intent on assigning responsibility to the present administration


JM, no one wishes more for that to be the case than myself. If a stable representative government emerges in Iraq, that would be a blessedly positive outcome from a tragic decision by our administration to attack Iraq just because we could. We went to war for all of the wrong reasons. If something good comes out of that, I will be first in line, applauding.

Re Afghanistan, I agree with you limitedly. It will be interesting to watch what happens with this government and to see if it works. The problems inherent in combining Islamic and secular forces are right now on stage in Iran. What happens there will be interesting indeed.

The spirited debate over what role intelligence played in our war against Iraq might also have a positive outcome in that the idea of rushing into war, having distorted the intel to suit our purposes, might be seen in retrospect as a huge policy mistake that other nations, and our nation, might learn from and avoid.

The dust-up will also have a positive effect in that no one in this country or any other country will again easily swallow our claims that "intelligence" shows that North Korea or Iran or Libya, or any other suspect regime, is known to do X or about to do X or on the verge of X. Note the suspicion from the press about GWB's claim that Libya fell into line because of our war on Iraq. Well warranted cynicism arose immediately. It was obvious that Kaddafi was hurting from the sanctions and wanted them lifted; getting rid of a stalled and unsuccessful nuclear program was an easy way out.
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Feb, 2004 09:16 am
Quote:


Concerns grow over Taliban resurgence, opium growth

By Jim Lobe


WASHINGTON: Suicide bombings that killed two peacekeepers from Britain and Canada in 48 hours have abruptly reminded Washington and its Nato allies they face major challenges in ensuring sufficient security in Afghanistan to hold credible elections scheduled for June.

Already, some officials are suggesting the vote might have to be rescheduled as a result of both delays in the registration process and the security situation, particularly in the south, southeast and eastern parts of the country, where the Taliban, which was ousted by US-led forces in late 2001, is resurgent.

But the administration of US President George W. Bush, which is far more pre-occupied with Iraq and the increasingly dicey transition there that is also due to take place in June, is still hoping the Afghanistan elections can be held as scheduled.

Reports this week that the Pentagon is preparing a major "spring offensive" against the Taliban and members of the Al Qaeda terrorist group, both in Afghanistan and across the border in Pakistan, suggest Washington has opted for a pro-active strategy aimed precisely at minimising the ability of those groups to disrupt the elections.

The latest attacks in the capital Kabul took place just after President Hamid Karzai's signing last weekend of Afghanistan's new constitution, which was ratified by a loya jirga, or assembly of notables, on January 4, after 22 days of often rancorous debate.

Depicted by Washington as a milestone in stabilising the country and guaranteeing basic rights to all Afghans, including women and minorities, the constitution must still be implemented in practice, particularly over vast parts of the country outside the capital still ruled by warlords and clan chiefs.

"Ratification of the constitution is only half the challenge", Lakhdar Brahimi, who just ended a two-year assignment as the United Nations' top envoy to Kabul, told a Washington audience on Tuesday.

He stressed that ensuring security, particularly in advance of the elections, was "really the key issue" for the central government and international peacekeepers.

The United States currently has about 11,000 troops in Afghanistan. Most of them are there to track down and engage Taliban and Al Qaeda forces, although a growing number of soldiers are also working in provincial reconstruction teams (PRTs) - groups of between 50 and 100 troops plus civilian and political advisers - that have deployed to several key towns and cities to provide security and carry out some reconstructionactivities.

A second force of about 5,500 troops currently under Nato command, the International Security Assistance Force (ISAF), is restricted to Kabul, although it recently pledged to create several of its own PRTs to deploy outside the capital. The two soldiers killed this week were both attached to ISAF.

US Gen James Jones, the military head of Nato, complained in testimony before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on Tuesday, however, that ISAF still lacks the needed equipment, such as helicopters, to begin such deployments.

He said Nato's ability to provide those items will be a "defining moment for the alliance" and its ability to improve the security situation in Afghanistan. Jones also hinted that additional US or Nato troops could be helpful, either for combat operations or to create more PRTs.

A third force that is supposed to enhance security is the Afghan Army itself. But desertions have sharply set back progress in building and training a force that currently numbers less than 6,000 soldiers.

The high rate of desertions has been blamed until recently on the dominance in the officer corps of ethnic minorities, particularly Tajiks from the Panshir Valley - whose Northern Alliance was Washington's main partner in ousting the Taliban.

Low pay has also been singled out, particularly compared to the money available in the thriving drug trade, which has emerged as another major obstacle to Afghanistan's stabilization and reconstruction.

Not only has drug money become a steady source of income for the Taliban and assorted warlords who still challenge the central government's authority, but it is having a growing impact on the country's economy as a whole.

The United Nations currently estimates that Afghanistan's annual opium production now accounts for 75 per cent of the world's total output and nearly one-half of the country's gross domestic product (GDP).

"Some in the government say Afghanistan risks becoming a narco-state (and) ... really needs to be tackled more vigorously", Brahimi said on Tuesday. In addition to undermining the central government, "it is already distorting the delivery of aid", he added, noting that farmers earn as much as 12 dollars a day to cultivate opium, while the US Agency for International Development (USAID) is only offering between three and six dollars a day to its Afghan employees.

"Along with growing insecurity, the drug trade is the single biggest obstacle to a stable Afghanistan", according to Dennis Kux and Harpinder Athwal, two members of a Council on Foreign Relations-Asia Society task force that travelled to Afghanistan last month.

But a major crackdown against the drug trade, particularly in Pashtun areas where the Taliban thrives, could backfire by spreading discontent, according to some US analysts - an assessment that helps explain the current "hands-off policy" observed by US forces.

Washington's most important goal for now is to ensure elections can be carried off, if not by the scheduled June date then by only a few weeks later, say US officials.

The administration of President George W. Bush is particularly worried that failure to hold elections in Afghanistan before US presidential elections in November will be trumpeted by Democrats as evidence that Bush's "war on terrorism" is going poorly.

Out of a total potential voting population of more than 10 million, only about 600,000 voters have been registered to date, although Brahimi said UN officials are "reasonably hopeful" that nearly all potential voters can be registered by June.

But up-to-date voting rolls are only one prerequisite for credible elections, he stressed, noting that several others must still be met, including disarmament, the creation of credible national political parties and freedom of expression - all dependent on real security.-Dawn/The InterPress News Service.


Source
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Feb, 2004 11:40 am
Bush may be losing some of his pals in the publishers' penthouse suites:

Quote:
"We feel deceived -- by the CIA, which overestimated the threat, and by the White House, which probably stretched the bad estimates to build a case for war. If Bush had found other strategic or humanitarian reasons for the war, "he should have argued the case on that basis" ...

-- Editorial page, the Dallas Morning News (hardly liberal)

Quote:
"While intelligence was faulty, the evidence also seems overwhelming that the Bush administration pushed existing evidence well beyond its breaking point, exaggerating threats and claiming specific knowledge of Iraqi WMD where in reality no such knowledge existed."

-- Editorial page, Atlanta Journal-Constitution (hardly liberal)

Quote:
"Was the administration misled, or did it twist what it was told to justify taking down Hussein? A full accounting is due."

-- Editorial page, The Detroit Free (sic) Press

Quote:
"President Bush should acknowledge two harsh truths: that the intelligence was completely wrong and that administration hawks tried to politicize intelligence."

-- The Boston Globe

Quote:
"Kay's conclusion destroys the remaining credibility of this administration's argument for an immediate, pre-emptive war."

-- The Philadelphia Inquirer
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Feb, 2004 11:43 am
I wonder how timber's gonna twist out'a this one.
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Feb, 2004 11:45 am
WMD's don't matter, remember? the important thing is that we removed the "worst dictator in human history," and that we have brought "freedom and democracy" to the Iraqi people. Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 1 Feb, 2004 01:31 pm
The mess in Iraq is getting messier.
******************************
Suicide Bombers Kill 56 in Attacks on Iraqi Kurds
30 minutes ago Add Top Stories - Reuters to My Yahoo!


By Shamal Aqrawi

ARBIL, Iraq (Reuters) - Two suicide bombers strapped with explosives blew themselves up Sunday in the offices of two Kurdish parties aligned with U.S. occupation forces in northern Iraq (news - web sites), killing at least 56 people and wounding 200.





The Arbil offices of Iraq's two main Kurdish political groups were crowded with senior officials celebrating the Muslim holiday of Eid al-Adha when the bombers struck, killing many top leaders of the two groups.


Body parts were strewn among the debris and pools of blood congealed on the floor beside shards of shattered glass.


The attack risks heightening ethnic tensions, complicating U.S. plans to hand back sovereignty to Iraqis by end-June.


Wounded people filled the city's hospitals which were in chaos, overstretched with many doctors at home for the holiday. Staff were called back to help, and U.S. helicopters brought medical assistance. Bodies were laid out in the corridors, with weeping relatives trying to identify the corpses.


Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshiyar Zebari, a Kurd, blamed the attacks on the al Qaeda network or its allies.


"It was an attack by terrorists, al Qaeda and Ansar al-Islam," he said. Several senior Kurdish officials have been targeted in assassination attempts in recent years, attacks they blamed on the Muslim militant Ansar al-Islam group.


The coordinated attacks on the offices of the Kurdistan Democratic Party (KDP) and the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan (PUK) were the second-deadliest in Iraq since Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) was toppled and marked the first time a major suicide assault involved attackers on foot rather than driving vehicles.


TOLL EXPECTED TO RISE


A senior U.S. military commander said 56 people were killed and 200 wounded. Kurdish officials said the toll would rise.


Officials said security might have been too lax on the Feast of Sacrifice, a sacred day in the Muslim calendar.


"Those who carried out the attacks were trained, experienced and had planned for the operation," said Sadiiq Ziwati, a KDP official in Mosul. "They knew that because of our ethics, we wouldn't be searching everyone who came to wish us a happy Eid."


Peter Galbraith, a former U.S. diplomat and expert on the Kurds who was in Arbil, said the attack could strengthen the hand of Kurdish groups that want to break away from the rest of the country, threatening further chaos in Iraq.


"It is too early to predict the fallout, but the bombings will strengthen those in the Kurdish movement who want to insulate Kurdistan physically and politically from the rest of Iraq," Galbraith said.


Those killed included Sami Abdul-Rahman, deputy prime minister of the KDP government in one half of northern Iraq. Akram Mantik, governor of Arbil province and his deputy Mehdi Khoshnau also died, as did the chief of the KDP headquarters. The top PUK official in Arbil was critically wounded.


"The significance of this is devastating to the leadership of the Kurdish Democratic Party, one of the U.S.'s biggest allies in the war," Galbraith said.


WOLFOWITZ: "WE ARE WINNING"


U.S. Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz, on a visit to Baghdad, said people like the Arbil attackers would be defeated.

"They're...not about Islam, they're not about Muslims, they're about their own fanatical view of the world and they will kill to try to advance it," he told reporters. "But we are winning and they are losing."

Wolfowitz also defended the decision to invade Iraq, despite mounting evidence intelligence that Saddam possessed an arsenal of weapons of mass destruction was faulty.

Sunday, the White House and key congressional leaders negotiated details of an independent commission to investigate intelligence failures before the Iraq war.

President Bush (news - web sites) had earlier rejected an independent probe amid White House fears of a political witch-hunt by Democrats hoping to unseat him in this year's presidential election, but began in recent days to reconsider the position given the bipartisan pressure for an investigation.

In the town of Balad, north of Baghdad, guerrillas fired rockets at a U.S. supply base Sunday, killing one soldier and wounding 12, the U.S. military said. Twelve Iraqi men and four women were arrested after the attack.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Feb, 2004 06:07 am
Post Hutton I suppose I have to be careful what I say from now on. It is apparantly against the law in this country to suggest that the govt. knew what it was doing when it produced the September 2002 dossier on Iraq's wmd. I don't know which is worse, to opt into a war to demonstrate our loyalty to the United States, or to send our troops into battle as a necessary consequence resulting from an honest mistake.

Its a bit like someone saying yes we did tell you to invade Iraq. But it was a mistake, we meant Iran. Mr Bush was looking at a map upside down. Its easily done the wmd are in Iran not Iraq, its only one letter different anyway, and the two countries are right next door to each other. We didn't deliberately send you to the wrong country, you must believe that. And dont suggest otherwise or YOU ARE IN BIG TROUBLE.
0 Replies
 
pistoff
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Feb, 2004 06:22 am
Whorotwits
This man is blatant liar and a warmongering fascist. Recently he put out a statement saying that the US will nuetralize the Kurds. Turkey will no allow a sovereign Kurdish state. The Kurds captured Saddam but didn't get the monetary reward. A deal was struck regarding their territory. Will the US back up that deal? I seriously doubt it. They will be betrayed just like the last time.
0 Replies
 
 

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