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THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ VI

 
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 May, 2004 12:09 am
Good post Mporter,

mporter wrote:
OCCOM BILL-Thanks for the information. My father always told me that I should never bet against the professional bookies. He said that they do not include emotion in their calculations--only as many hard facts as they can find.

I am sure that you realize, OCCOM BILL, that the business of the news media is to create controversy and to sell papers; magazines and TV time.

I have been reading about the abuses at Abu prison for weeks now.

However, an article by Mark Steyn, syndicated columnist in the Sun Times- Chicago- Sunday May 23rd - P. 39A reveals that:

"There are some 8,000 towns and villages in the country. How many do you hear about on the news? For a week, its all Fallujah all the time. Then it's Najaf, and nada for anywhere else. Currently, 90 percent of Iraqi coverage is about one lousy building, AbuGhraib. So what's going on in the other 7,997 dots on the map? In the Shia province of Dhi Qar, a couple of hundred miles southwest of Baghdad, 16 of the biggest 20 cities plus many smaller towns wil have elected councils by June.

These were the first free elections in Dhi Qar's history and "In almost every case, secular independents and representatives of nonreligious parties did better than the Islamists" That assessment is from the anti-war, anti-Bush anti Blair Euro-lefities at the Guardian, by the way."

end of quote

and, OCCOM BILL, a story which has not gotten a lot of play was featured in today's Chicago Tribune.

Eight Iraqis who had their right hands cut off and were tattooed on their foreheads for the infamous crime of "using American currency" by Saddam Hussein received new robotic prosthesis in Houston Texas. They did not pay for these operations.

Saddam had the ritual cutting off of the right hands video taped but no news outlet would show this video. Apparently, naked Iraqis being placed in a pile; Iraqis being sexually abused; Iraqis being beaten are horrible, horrible, horrible--and they are.

So what was done?

l. Court martials for the guilty

2. Reparations for the Iraqis who "suffered" will, I am sure, be forthcoming

and

unknown to many. our countrymen, the very very large majority of whom operate under law and are five hundred times more compassionate and law abiding than SaddamHussein and his cronies, work hard to give Iraqis back their right hands and, oh yes, to give Iraqis back thier ears which had been amputed by Saddam's goons.

But, would you believe it, OCCOM BILL, somehow, since we in the USA are all saintly and free from sin, the entire Country is labeled as an abomination by the crafty fundamentalist insurgents inIraq; the cheese eaters in France who would still be living under Hitler if we had not saved thier hides; and the unrepentant Nazi types in Germany.

Some partisan left wingers will tell any lie and smother the truth about replacement of hands, replacement of ears, new schools, new roads, irrigation and electricity, in order to denigrate a president who has had the good sense not to place a cigar in a young intern's pudenda, instead of paying attention to the Sudanese pleas to take Osama off thier hands.


(It was worth repeating in its entirety)
(BTW, Dlowan is a she, and a good one at that)
0 Replies
 
mporter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 May, 2004 01:29 am
Thank You, OCCOM BILL, and thank you so much for your information regarding MS. Dlowan. I am, much to the distress of some of my younger colleagues and friends, still mired in the ancient nicities which approve of opening the doors for the fairer sex and walking on the outside of the sidewalk.

Absurd customs, I am assured, but I cannot lose the habits ingrained in me from my childhood.

I will have to be very careful that I don't allow my testosterone get the better of me, OCCOM BILL. You know, there is a difference betweem men and women and it isn't the usual difference referred to in vulgar stories.
Women, according to the evolutionary psycholgist, Steven Pinker, in his remarkable book, The Blank Slate have differences that are rooted in neuroscience and genetics. Pinker states that the minds of men and women are not identical and that the recent reviews of sex differences have converged on some reliable differences.

Pinker relates that research has found that men are far more likely to compete violently, sometimes lethally, with one another over stakes great and small.

Again, the bell curve is flatter and wider for males than for females. That is, there are proportionately more males at the extremes. Pinker reports that along the left tail of the bell curve, one finds that more boys are likely to be dyslexic, learning disabled,attention deficient, emotionally disturbed and mentally retarded. At the right tail, one finds that in a sample of talented students who score above 700 out of 800 on the Mathematics section of the SAT, boys outnumber girls by thirteen to one even though the scores of boys and girls are similar within the bulk of the curve.

Again, OCCOM BILL, thanks for the information and for the reprint. I will do the same for you sometimes.

And, now that I am aware that the person I was addressing as Mr. Dlowan is really Ms. or Mrs. Dlowan, I will have to be sure that my testosterone level is muted when I respond to her exquisite posts.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 May, 2004 03:46 am
Quote:
US officials suspect Iran duped the US into invading Iraq by slipping bogus intelligence to Ahmed Chalabi's Iraqi National Congress


Laughing

This is one of the better bits of dis information I have read recently

Good morning mporter,

Surely you have a bad word or so to say about the Brits as well? We are feeling a little left out here, we are Europeans too you know..
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 May, 2004 04:14 am
Quote:
The nation's premier scholar on Islam, Professor Bernard Lewis, has written:

quote

"In the classical Islamist view, to which many Muslims are beginning to return, he world and all mankind are divided into two: The House of Islam where the Muslim Law and faith prevail, and the rest, known as the House of Unbelief, WHICH IT IS THE DUTY OF MUSLIMS TO ULTIMATELY BRING TO ISLAM"

People who can read know that if the foremost Islamist Scholar in the USA is correct, then there will be no peace or surcease from the Terrorists until they destroy us or we destroy them.


Mporter

I tried to find that link you posted to the great words of the Professor, but I think the quote above tells me enough.

It reminds me of two things,

The Bernard Manning School of Etiquette

The University of Wollamalloo (Australia), where Profs Bruce and Bruce are in charge of (respectively) logical positivism and the sheep dip.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 May, 2004 05:40 am
Quote:
Three years after the overthrow of the Taliban and George Bush's declaration of victory in the first conflict in the war on terror, Afghanistan is a nation on the edge of anarchy.

A devastating indictment of the Allies' failure to help reconstruct the country in the wake of the 2001 conflict is to be delivered in a parliamentary report.

The Independent has learnt that an all-party group of MPs from the Foreign Affairs Committee has returned from a visit to the country shocked and alarmed by what they witnessed. They warn that urgent action must be taken to save Afghanistan from plunging further into chaos because of Western neglect.
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=524675
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 May, 2004 10:08 am
The Search for P.M.D.s, etc.

May 23, 2004
By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN

Quote:
Sometimes you don't know whether to laugh or cry. Time.com reported last week that the F.B.I. had alerted law enforcement offices around America to be on the lookout for possible suicide bombers. Police forces were told to keep an eye out for people wearing bulky overcoats in the heat
of summer, people with electric wires sticking out of their clothing, or people smelling of chemicals. Personally, if I see someone trailing electric wires, I am definitely calling the cops.

Unfortunately, such bizarre warnings could be the first of many, because while we have not found any W.M.D. in Iraq, we have found there a disturbing number of P.M.D.'s - people of mass destruction. Consider the car-bombing murder
in Baghdad on Monday of Ezzedine Salim, the Shiite
politician and president of the Iraqi Governing Council. According to news reports, Mr. Salim was in a five-car convoy of Nissan Patrols waiting in a line of cars to enter the Green Zone, the secure American complex in the heart of Baghdad. Suddenly, a Volkswagen Passat jumped out of the
line of cars, raced toward Mr. Salim's vehicle and blew up next to it, incinerating everything in the area.

We're so shell-shocked, we just treat this as another day, another suicide bomb in Iraq. But we need to think about this. My rough estimate is that there have been 50 to 75 suicide bomb attacks in Iraq in the last year. So the first question I have is this: Where are all these suicide bombers coming from? How do you just get these people off
the shelf?

I don't buy it myself, but one can plausibly argue that 37 years of Israeli occupation of the West Bank have made Palestinians so crazy that scores of them would have volunteered for suicide bombing missions over the last few years. But the U.S. "occupation" of Iraq is only a year old, and the suicide bombings started there within a few
months of U.S. forces' arriving, to liberate the Iraqi
people from Saddam's warped tyranny. So what does that mean? It means that some group or groups have the ability to recruit a large pool of people willing to kill themselves in attacks against American or Iraqi targets on short notice - and we don't have a clue how this process works.

We don't know who these people are - although reports suggest they are coming from Europe, Yemen, Lebanon, Syria and Saudi Arabia - how the underground railroad that gets them from their local mosques to Iraq operates, how they connect up with the operating cells in Iraq and how they
get wired and indoctrinated for suicide missions.

"I don't think the P.M.D.'s are really a product of local Iraqi resentment against us," says Raymond Stock, an expert on Arabic literature and media based in Cairo. "They are mainly imported cookie-cutter killers, created by a combination of Arab mass media, certain extremist elements in Muslim culture, and some very shrewd recruiting by Al Qaeda and its ilk. When young, angry, futureless, sexually repressed people are taught that death is a permanentvacation of guilt-free pleasure, and they see it glorified in countless videos, all you need is a willing truck driver to ferry them over the border from Syria, Jordan, Turkey or Saudi Arabia and presto - a human bomb."

Whoever "they" are, they seem to be getting more and more sophisticated. What's worse is that these people are utter nihilists. At least Hamas has a stated political goal of ridding Palestine of all Jews and setting up an Islamic state there. It even offers social services. The people running the suicide operations in Iraq, whether they are working independently or are just one organization, don't even claim credit, let alone make any demands. They just want to ensure that America fails to produce anything decent in Iraq and they are ready to sacrifice all Iraqis for that end.

Extremely sophisticated nihilists, able to organize
multiple suicide bombings right under our noses - for a year. It's another sign that we never had enough troops in Iraq, and have failed to train and equip a meaningful Iraqi police force to secure Iraq's borders or its interior - which is the necessary foundation for any decent outcome in
Iraq.

But it's another reason we need to shift authority and security in Iraq to Iraqis as soon as they can handle it. Only they will have the ears needed to pick up the accents of P.M.D.'s, the eyes needed to know who doesn't belong and the smell for where these rotten apples are being stored to solve this P.M.D. mystery. And only they will have the words in Arabic to delegitimize this suicide trend.

We must shut this play down before it comes to a theater near us. ÝÝ


http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/23/opinion/23FRIE.html?ex=1086413288&ei=1&en=c693e05bd7d49877
0 Replies
 
JoanneDorel
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 May, 2004 10:13 am
Interesting ican711nm, I am thinking that it might be hate toward capitalism and imperialism all wrapped up into one and not necessarily a religious issue. Just some food for thought.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 May, 2004 11:31 am
JoanneDorel wrote:
Interesting ican711nm, I am thinking that it might be hate toward capitalism and imperialism all wrapped up into one and not necessarily a religious issue. Just some food for thought.


I've given this a great deal of thought over most of my lifetime. Why is it, I've repeatedly asked myself, so many people root for others to accomplish more, while so many others resent the accomplishments of others and root for them to accomplish less? I root for the Michael Dells and Bill Gateses of the world. I realize we all benefit from their accomplishments regardless of the specific intents of the Dells or Gateses to produce that result. I for one want them to accomplish far more.

I've read a great many explanations, Helmut Schoeck's "Envy" and Ayn Rand's "Fountain Head" are but two small examples. Perhaps more than one explanation is valid. The usual explanation is those like the PMDs (i.e., self-destructive-others-destructive) are choosing to be PMDs as an "escape from self-hatred."

Others claim that a society that attempts to secure equality of individual liberty among all people guarantees that individual people will behave, accomplish and accumulate differently according to their individual values, abilities, tastes and desires. Such differences are perceived by some to be the causes of self-hatred among the less accomplished and less accumulating. Others see PMD to be caused by pernicious envy (i.e., the compulsion to suppress or destroy individual differences even if it results in the destruction of one-self as well as others).

Capitalism, free enterprise, free trade, commercial or economic imperialism, or whatever one chooses to call it, by virtue of its dependence on successfully securing individual liberty domestically, and eventually world-wide, promotes opportunities leading to vastly different results achieved among different people. Those conceived, bred, or self-corrupted to hate those who are more accomplished, simply cannot tolerate the consequences of true capitalism and seek a system quaranteeing equal or near equal distribution of wealth and status. They will pursue such an equal distribution even when they know such a system of things ultimately produces their own and everyone else's incarceration in a universal tyranny (e.g., "1984" by George Orwell). Thus, bottom-line, it is seeing everyone else in the same state of self-hatred that they are in that enables them to escape from some of the pain of their own self-hatred.

A great many of these people can be rescued by educating them or by them educating themselves how to emulate the more accomplished. Still many others, knowing or learning their resentments are self-destructive, can strive to suppress or restrain their resentments. The rest are best separated from the rest of the human race for the good of the human race.
0 Replies
 
mporter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 May, 2004 12:23 pm
A wonderful post, Ican711. I have read Schoeck's Envy and find that he explains a great deal about the hatred directed at us by countries we have helped often. France and Germany come to mind immediately.

Most of the elites in those countries excoriate the USA every chance they get because they are so envious that we are the premier power in the World.

As the British historian, Paul Kennedy has commented in his book- "Preparing for the Twenty-First Century" says:

quote

"America,by contrast, is the home of those fleeing from constraints elsewhere; if offered an open frontier to dissatisfied people; and its sheer size, "escapist" culture, and lack of serious external threat combined to foster dislike of organized, central government. This cultural heritage means that as the United States turns to meet the broad forces for global change, its response is also likely to be differentiated, decentralized, and individualistic, a "muddling through" rather than a coordinated centralized attack upon the problems.

After all, a country like Great Britain "muddled through" for a very long time.
0 Replies
 
mporter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 May, 2004 12:31 pm
Steve: As Cyrano De Bergerac said to his nemesis in the eponymous play, when his opponent commented on the size of his nose by saying: Your nose is rather large---My good sir, you are too simple, you could have said a great many things- for example, thus.

I am very much afraid that you did nothing to rebut Professor Lewis's statement. The sheep dip analogy is cute but not pertinent. If you seriously think that Professor Lewis is wrong, please rebut his arguments directly without ridiculous asides that do not bear on his points.
Professor Lewis has written many books on Islam. The article that I refer to can be found at www.theatlantic.com/issues/90sep/rage.htm

It is entitled: The Roots of Muslim Rage- subtitled Why so many Muslims deeply resent the West, and why their bitterness will not easily be mollified.

If you can demolish his argument, many of us will be all the better for it.

But no more irrelevant sheep dip comments, please.

MS.Dlowan herself has excoriated me for what she called irrelvant asides.
0 Replies
 
JamesMorrison
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 May, 2004 12:45 pm
In regard to the alleged bombing of the Iraqi Wedding, I must simply reserve judgment until some questions can be answered and verified.

I have seen the "before" video and, other than the obvious ability of the participants to obtain some slick tricked out 4x4's, found it unimpressive. The "after" video requires some connection geographically and chronologically to the "before" video to give it validity and to connect it to the bombing of innocents. Is this possible? Has anyone seen this connection in which the preservation of evidence and proof of its unadulterated trail is verified?

As callous as it may seen, a third video would be most helpful. This video would, of course chronicle the actual bombing. Does such a record exist?

Some one has been kind enough to post, in this thread, the story of a musician who only a short time before had been playing at the wedding in question (the before). We then encounter pictures of the same man in his death shroud (The after). Surely this must be qualified employing the word "maybe". Such identification must be the result of a cold, unemotional, scientific examination (As has been mentioned, Bookies usually possess the required mindset, however those involved in such tragedies rarely do). I have seen this done and, even when the before and after photographic images look remarkably identical, experts can look for such things as the spacing between eyes, eyebrow arching, and ear shape and placement and determine without a doubt that the images are of two different individuals.

This incident may have actually happened. It is not without precedent. But two unconnected videos and a "tan" shirt do not evidence make.

Respectfully,

JM
0 Replies
 
mporter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 May, 2004 01:01 pm
You are correct, Mr. Morrison. A logical analysis of the problem would reveal that there is really insufficent evidence to make an informed judgement, although, it is my opinion that the AlQaeda in Iraq are masters of propaganda. History is rife with such "incidents".

I will quote from William L. Shirer's "The Rise and Fall of Nazi Germany P. 594.

"There remained only the concocting of a deed which would "prove" that not Germany but Poland had attacked first....For six days Alfred Naujocks, the intellectual SS ruffian, had been waiting a Gleiwitz on the Polish border to carry out a simulated Polich attack on the German radio station there. The plan had been revised. SS men outfitted in Polish Army uniforms were to do the shooting, and drugged concentration camp inmates were to be left dying as "casualties".

Very clever of the Nazis to use concentration camp inmates. the Nazis were evidently ruthless but not as ruthless as the Al Quada animals who cut off the heads of Pearl and Berg and then distributed Videos for propaganda purposes.

It is ridiculous to think that the Polish troops would have attacked Germans in 1939.

It is ridiculous to think that Americans would attack a wedding at the Syrian border where there is a great deal of smuggling AT 3:00 in the morning.

I do not think the Iraqi people are so ignorant as not to realize that multiple firings in the air from rifles over and over may indeed be an unsafe practice.

If the Iraqis did indeed fire rifles in the air repeatedly at a wedding then I can only conclude that Iraq is viewed as a much safer place than the Left wingers would have it.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 May, 2004 01:29 pm
Not many people, photographing a wedding, consider the likelihood that they must construct a watertight document that can be tied down as to time and place. I believe, for example, that the photographer himself was killed in the attack and so there is a certain inevitable discontinuity.
A wedding film is not forensic evidence, so it is necessary to see the video in that light, and keep an open mind.
In my paper, there was no doubt in the reporter's mind however, that the musician filmed at the wedding was the same as the ex-person in the mortuary.
0 Replies
 
mporter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 May, 2004 01:45 pm
McTag. I am very much afraid that you do not know the meaning of the term- Beyond a Reasonable Doubt.
If you need refreshment on the need for conclusive evidence, you are invited to view the excellent book entitled "An Affair of State" in which the preemient jurist, Richard Posner, reveals exactly why the perjurer, Bill Clinton, was not indicted for "perjury"

Allegations are fine. We expect them from the murderous propagandists who held up Berg's head and showed Pearl's executioners on TV, but there is no evidence which conclusively proves that there was a wedding at the site. You apparently did not read my post in which I pointed out that propagandists like The Nazis concocted "Polish atrocities".

I am not at all suprised that the AlQaeda is willing to spread lies since any murderers who would cause the deaths of 2,600 innocent people in the WTC on 9/11 would stoop to any outrage.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 May, 2004 03:26 pm
mporter, thank you for the complement. In fairness, I confess, I both respect and enjoy all of your foregoing posts today. In particular, I like your quote of Paul Kennedy. In fact, I reacted with some considerably positive emotion when I first read it. That emotion moves me to quote Kennedy again here and then provide another quote here for all those who may have forgotten.

Paul Kennedy wrote:
"America,by contrast, is the home of those fleeing from constraints elsewhere; if offered an open frontier to dissatisfied people; and its sheer size, "escapist" culture, and lack of serious external threat combined to foster dislike of organized, central government. This cultural heritage means that as the United States turns to meet the broad forces for global change, its response is also likely to be differentiated, decentralized, and individualistic, a "muddling through" rather than a coordinated centralized attack upon the problems.


The Declaration of Independence
(Adopted in Congress 4 July 1776)
The Unanimous Declaration of the Thirteen United States of America
Quote:
When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bonds which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security.


Both Kennedy's quote and this Declaration impel me to even more strongly support our efforts in Afghanistan and Iraq while always seeking more effective ways to achieve our objectives there. As you know, another George "muddled through" repeatedly failing before he thankfully arrived at a process that would and did work.

By the way, talk about prescience, as you know, Shoeck first copywrited "Envy" (i.e., Envy, A Theory of Social Behavior) in 1966.
0 Replies
 
BillW
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 May, 2004 03:30 pm
McTag wrote:
Not many people, photographing a wedding, consider the likelihood that they must construct a watertight document that can be tied down as to time and place. I believe, for example, that the photographer himself was killed in the attack and so there is a certain inevitable discontinuity.
A wedding film is not forensic evidence, so it is necessary to see the video in that light, and keep an open mind.
In my paper, there was no doubt in the reporter's mind however, that the musician filmed at the wedding was the same as the ex-person in the mortuary.


Now, it is the responsibility of the dead to prove they are innocent beyond a reasonable doubt. A General said that even bad people have weddings, prepping for the next stage. This is the reason, BTW, why the military is not allowed to operate in domestic matters and the Iraqis want veto power over any military operations - simply put, the military doesn't care who or how many get killed Confused ........... It's called collateral damage. :sad:
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 May, 2004 03:52 pm
BillW wrote:
McTag wrote:
Not many people, photographing a wedding, consider the likelihood that they must construct a watertight document that can be tied down as to time and place. I believe, for example, that the photographer himself was killed in the attack and so there is a certain inevitable discontinuity.
A wedding film is not forensic evidence, so it is necessary to see the video in that light, and keep an open mind.
In my paper, there was no doubt in the reporter's mind however, that the musician filmed at the wedding was the same as the ex-person in the mortuary.

Now, it is the responsibility of the dead to prove they are innocent beyond a reasonable doubt. A General said that even bad people have weddings, prepping for the next stage. This is the reason, BTW, why the military is not allowed to operate in domestic matters and the Iraqis want veto power over any military operations - simply put, the military doesn't care who or how many get killed Confused ........... It's called collateral damage. :sad:


NO! BS!

It is the responsibility of the living to objectively examine the evidence, such as it is, to determine whether the wedding party claim is valid or invalid. Too many Americans are going to die in this effort to help the Iraqis secure liberty for Iraqis and Americans secure liberty for Americans. Too many Iraqis are going to die in this effort to help the Iraqis secure liberty for Iraqis. Few of these deaths would occur if the TMM (i.e., Terrorist Murderers and Maimers) suppressed their own self-induced rage for which they are totally responsible, ceased murderering and maiming, and began aiding Iraqis to secure their liberty. If it were not for the TMM behaving as usual, the wedding party, if in deed it was a wedding party, would never have been attacked by our military.

The imperfections of the US military are trivial compared to the imperfections of the TMM.
0 Replies
 
BillW
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 May, 2004 04:00 pm
You are truly a sad individual <sigh>
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 May, 2004 04:16 pm
BillW wrote:
You are truly a sad individual <sigh>


You are truly not competent to know whether I am or am not a sad individual. Sad It is truly sad that you may be unaware of that.

From this response of yours, I infer that you are conceding that you lack valid facts and/or valid logic to support your position. If I am wrong, you can best illustrate that fact by attacking my position rather than busying yourself with the selection of an irrelevant adjective that you hope describes me.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 May, 2004 06:00 pm
Hillsdale College
May Imprimis
Radical Islam in America
Stephen Schwartz

Stephen Schwartz is a journalist who has published articles in the Wall Street Journal, the Los Angeles Times, the Weekly Standard, the New York Post and the Toronto Globe and Mail. He is also the author of the best selling book The Two Faces of Islam: Saudi Fundamentalism and Its Role in Terrorism (Anchor, 2003).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The following is adapted from a speech delivered on February 25, 2004, at a Hillsdale College National Leadership Seminar in Naples, Florida.

Quote:
Radical Islam in America

When the horror of September 11 happened, Americans experienced a great deal of confusion and heard a great deal of speculation about the motives for anti-American terrorism. It was natural for most of us to assume that we were attacked because of who we are: because we are wealthy, because we are a dominant power in the world and because we represent ideas that are in conflict with the ideas of radical Islam. Many also assumed – wrongly I think – that it had mostly to do with the Middle East and Israel. But almost immediately a very interesting fact emerged: of the 19 suicide terrorists on September 11, 15 were subjects of the kingdom of Saudi Arabia.

Why is this important? It is important because these were not poor people from refugee camps on the West Bank or in Gaza. These were not people who had grown up feeling some grievance against Israel and the United States because they lived in difficult conditions. These were not people from the crowded and disrupted communities of Egypt or Pakistan, or people who had experienced anti-Islamic violence in the last 20 years and had therefore turned against the United States. These people had grown up in the country that Americans often think of as our most solid and dependable ally in the Arab world – the kingdom of Saudi Arabia. Thus the question arose: Why would Saudis be involved in this?

Related questions followed: What does it mean that Osama Bin Laden is a Saudi? And that so many members of Al-Qaeda are Saudis? Why is it that Al-Qaeda is essentially a Saudi political movement? And that 25 percent of those detained in Guantanamo are Saudis? Why is it that a country the U.S. had favored, to which the U.S. had delivered an enormous amount of wealth through the purchase of oil – a country that the U.S. had protected militarily, and whose young people have been educated in America for many years – why was Saudi Arabia, of all countries, so connected to the attacks of September 11?

Osama Bin Laden and Saudi Arabia

Many in the United States bought into Osama Bin Laden’s propaganda when he claimed to be outraged that American troops were stationed on the “holy soil” of Saudi Arabia. In fact, American troops were never stationed on Saudi “holy soil,” because Riyadh, the capital of Saudi Arabia, and Dhahran, the area where most U.S. troops were stationed, are not Islamic holy sites. The only holy places in Saudi Arabia, from the Muslim perspective, are Mecca and Medina – and there were never American troops in either of those cities. The only time foreign troops were sent to Mecca or Medina was in 1979, when a group of Muslim radicals took over the Grand Mosque in Mecca and the Saudi government sent in French paratroops to kill them.

We are accustomed to hearing that Osama Bin Laden and Al-Qaeda look on the Saudi royal family as just as much an enemy as the U.S., and that they want to overthrow it. But the truth, as I first pointed out in the Weekly Standard about a month after September 11, is that Osama Bin Laden has never called for the overthrow of the Saudi royal family. What he calls for is a change in their policies. That is, he calls for what he would consider a more Islamic policy. The fact is – based on my contacts and interviews with Saudi subjects both inside and outside the kingdom – Osama is essentially a product of the Saudi regime, and in particular of the hardliners in the regime. And so the message of Osama Bin Laden on September 11 was also a message from those Saudi hardliners, and the message was aimed at their audiences.

First, it was a message to the United States saying, “Don’t ask Saudi Arabia to change, because if we change, this is what you’ll get – instead of us, Osama.”

Second, it was a message to the people of Saudi Arabia – a fundamentally rational people. Many Saudis are on the Internet. Many have satellite dishes. And they are surrounded by a crescent of normalizing countries: Iraq, Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain, the Emirates, Oman, Yemen – countries that certainly are not as progressive and prosperous as Florida, but that are on their way toward becoming normal modern countries. And yet Saudis live in a country – to cite but one of several examples of stifling backwardness – where women are not allowed to drive. So Saudi society is a society demanding change. And the second message of September 11 was to the Saudi people in response to their yearning: “Don’t try to make changes because we radical Islamists still have enormous power, and it is a destructive power.”

Third, the same message was intended for Muslims all around the world: “Don’t challenge our control over global Islam.”

Wahhabism in the U.S.

The ideology of Saudi hardliners is, unfortunately, of great relevance even inside the United States. One doctrine of Islam dominates in Saudi Arabia: It is called Wahhabism. Wahhabism is the most extreme, the most violent, the most separatist, the most expansionistic form of Islam that exists. It’s a form of Islam that not only lashes out at the West, but that seeks to take over and impose a rigid conformity on the whole Muslim world.

What then of America? Islam was new in the United States in the 1980s and 1990s. Then, because of changes in the immigration laws, the American Muslim community suddenly became much larger. Most Muslims who came to the United States were not Arabs. The plurality have been people from Pakistan, India and Bangladesh. And as Islam originally emerged as a major religion in the U.S., it – unlike other American religions – didn’t have an establishment. A disparate group of Muslims arrived and established mosques in various places. They represented different ethnic groups and lacked any structure to bring them together and unite them. But that didn’t last long. And why? Because the Saudis decided to create an American Islamic establishment based on the radical doctrines of Wahhabism. In order to bring this about, they created a system of organizations that would speak for American Muslims to the government and the media and through the educational system and the mosques.

One can learn a lot about how the Saudi-backed Wahhabi establishment in the U.S. works by looking at how it came to speak for all of Islam in the American media. It did this by creating a set of organizations. One of the most prominent is called the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR). This group was allegedly set up to be a kind of a Muslim version of the Jewish Anti-Defamation League. That is, its stated goal was to protect Muslims against prejudice and stereotypes. I was working in the newsroom of the San Francisco Chronicle at the time, and I was struck by CAIR’s approach with our reporters and editors. They didn’t come to the newspaper offices and say, “We’re Muslims; we’re here now; this is our holy book; this is the life of our prophet Muhammad; these are the holidays we observe; this is what we believe in, and we’d like you to report these things accurately.” Rather, they came and they said, “We are a minority and we suffer from discrimination. We suffer from hurtful stereotypes. We know that you are good liberal reporters, and that you want to avoid inflicting these stereotypes on us. So whenever you do a story on Islam, you should call us first and make sure it is correct.” And, of course, that meant “correct” according to Saudi-sponsored Wahhabism.

There are other such groups. One of them is called the Islamic Society of North America. It is directly controlled from Saudi Arabia, and openly owns 250 of the 1,200 main mosques in the United States. But this is just the tip of the iceberg: My research suggests that a full 80 percent of American mosques are under the control of the Saudi government and Wahhabism. This does not mean that 80 percent of American Muslims are supporters of Wahhabism – only that their mosques are controlled by the Saudi Wahhabis. There’s a range of such organizations. Many we don’t hear much about, including some of the worst; for example, the Islamic Circle of North America, which acts as a kind of extremist militia among Pakistani Muslims and has a very bad reputation for threatening, intimidating and enforcing conformity in the Pakistani Muslim community.

Other Areas of Wahhabi Influence in the U.S.

There are three other areas where the Saudi government and its Wahhabi ideology have gained tremendous influence in the U.S. The first is in the American prison system. With one single exception, all of the federal and state chaplains representing Islam in American prisons are Wahhabis. That is, they are certified by groups originating in Saudi Arabia; the curriculum they follow was created in Saudi Arabia; and they go into our prisons and preach an extremist doctrine. This is not the same as saying that they go into our prisons and directly recruit terrorists – although there have been cases of that. But anytime you go into a prison – an environment of violence, obviously populated by troubled people – and preach an extremist doctrine, there are going to be bad and dangerous consequences.

The second area is in the military services. Every single Islamic chaplain in the U.S. military has been certified by Saudi-controlled groups – which means that our military chaplains also hold to Wahhabi doctrines. Is it surprising, then, that we had the incident of the Muslim solider in Kuwait who attacked his fellow soldiers? Or the problems with military personnel at Guantanamo? Or the Muslim military man in Washington State who was trying to turn over useful information to Al-Qaeda?

And finally there is the problem with what are known as the Islamic academies: Islamic elementary schools, middle schools and high schools throughout the U.S. that are supported by Saudi money and preach the Saudi-Wahhabi doctrine – in some cases to Saudi expatriate children living here, but in many other cases to Muslim children who are U.S. citizens.

What to Do

This seems a very dark picture. On the other hand, there are some fairly simple steps to take to solve the problem.

First and foremost, it is important to support the federal and state governments in a sustained investigation of Islamic extremism in our country. That means not falling for the propaganda claim – made by groups like CAIR – that investigating what’s happening in mosques, and the literature being distributed in mosques, somehow violates religious freedom. It is not a violation of religious freedom to prevent extremists from using religion as a cover for sedition and criminality. To the contrary, preventing this is necessary to the defense of religious freedom. So it’s absolutely necessary to support the FBI, the Justice Department, and other agencies who are investigating the extent to which Islam in the United States is under the influence of anti-American, anti-democratic extremists. And it is important that they are empowered to perform these investigations with laws like the Patriot Act.

Second, we must identify and support the moderate and patriotic Muslims in the United States who oppose Wahhabism and all it stands for. Many Muslims fit this description, even if we rarely hear of them.

Related to this, we should hold the media to account for its coverage of these issues. How many times have we heard the question since September 11: “Why is it that more Muslim leaders didn’t speak out against this abomination?” Actually, many Muslim leaders did speak out against terrorism and in support of freedom, but they weren’t heard in the media because their message didn’t fit the mold that the media likes to impose on this story. Thus, for instance, we didn’t hear from a Muslim leader in Chicago – the Mufti of the Bosnian Muslims in America – who is a very influential man, who loves America, and who, the day after September 11, said, “No Muslim living in America should support any of this. Everybody should do everything possible to stop it. If you hear about it in your community, tell the FBI about it and organize against it.” Instead, what the media covered were angry Muslims blaming America’s support of Israel and other misleading factors.

I say to my fellow journalists, “Why don’t you go to countries like Malaysia, Indonesia, Bangladesh, West Africa, Morocco and Bosnia? Why don’t you go and interview the Muslim leaders who support the West, who are against terrorism and who are willing to stand alongside the United States?” Recently (as I have written in the Weekly Standard), I went to Uzbekistan and interviewed three Islamist defectors, two of them from Al-Qaeda. These interviews suggest that although the leaders of the Islamist movement are extreme, murderous and fanatical, the foot soldiers in the movement are just like foot soldiers in other extremist movements. They get involved in this movement for reasons that are not ideological, and often become disillusioned. One man I spoke to defected from a group connected to Al-Qaeda when he saw that he was being used to commit atrocities against his own comrades. At the end of the interview, I asked him if he had anything to say to Americans. “Yes,” he said, “I want you to tell President Bush there are a lot of us out here who are ready to stand alongside America to deal a death blow to these monsters, these terrorists.”

As this story indicates, there is reason to be optimistic about the war on terror around the globe. But let us also not forget, in the course of conducting that war, the importance of employing law enforcement to stem the influence of Saudi-supported Wahhabi extremism in our own country.


Reprinted by permission from Imprimus, the national speech digest of Hillsdale, College, www.hillsdale.edu
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