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THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ VI

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Apr, 2004 03:09 pm
I sincerely doubt that your dictionary knowledge is an answer to my question, but only an evidence of your kind of logic.

Why didn't you paste and copy "leadership", but "invest" instead of it ( lead by US examples?)?

And why didn't you answer the question at all?
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Apr, 2004 03:14 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Thanks, ican711nm, for your response.

But actually I asked you to explain/answer to:
Quote:
[Since France and]Germany are no longer partners with Iraqi leadership ...


Thanks


You actually asked:
Quote:
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Quote:
Could you kindly explain the German partnership with Saddam?


No matter, I'll answer this too... Since Saddam is incarcerated, I presume the partnership that existed between Saddam and Germany before Saddam was outed no longer exists.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Apr, 2004 03:15 pm
Well, I really like it when you blame our conservative former government Laughing
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Apr, 2004 03:27 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Well, I really like it when you blame our conservative former government Laughing


I thought I was attributing not blaming, but I'll spare you the definitions of both.

However, I infer you want me to post from www.m-w.com
Quote:
Main Entry: 1lead
Pronunciation: 'lEd
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): led /'led/; lead·ing
Etymology: Middle English leden, from Old English l[AE]dan; akin to Old High German leiten to lead, Old English lIthan to go
transitive senses
1 a : to guide on a way especially by going in advance b : to direct on a course or in a direction c : to serve as a channel for <a pipe leads water to the house>
2 : to go through : LIVE <lead a quiet life>
3 a (1) : to direct the operations, activity, or performance of <lead an orchestra> (2) : to have charge of <lead a campaign> (3) : to suggest to (a witness) the answer desired by asking leading questions b (1) : to go at the head of <lead a parade> (2) : to be first in or among <lead the league> (3) : to have a margin over <led his opponent>
4 : to bring to some conclusion or condition <led to believe otherwise>
5 : to begin play with <lead trumps>
6 a : to aim in front of (a moving object) <lead a duck> b : to pass a ball or puck just in front of (a moving teammate)
intransitive senses
1 a : to guide someone or something along a way b : to lie, run, or open in a specified place or direction <path leads uphill> c : to guide a dance partner through the steps of a dance
2 a : to be first b (1) : BEGIN, OPEN (2) : to play the first card of a trick, round, or game
3 : to tend toward or have a result <study leading to a degree>
4 : to direct the first of a series of blows at an opponent in boxing
synonym see GUIDE
- lead one down the garden path also lead one up the garden path : HOODWINK, DECEIVE
Laughing
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Apr, 2004 03:51 pm
U.N. Distances Itself From an Envoy's Rebuke of Israel and the U.S.

April 24, 2004 - The New York Times
By WARREN HOGE

Quote:
UNITED NATIONS, April 23 - United Nations officials moved
Friday to disassociate the organization from damning
remarks about Israel and United States policy in the Middle
East made by its special envoy to Iraq, Lakhdar Brahimi.

The action was prompted by a radio interview in Paris
earlier this week in which Mr. Brahimi said Israel's
repressive policy and Washington's support of it were
poisoning the Middle East and aggravating the situation in
Iraq.

According to Agence France-Presse, Mr. Brahimi said on
France Inter radio: "The problems are connected. There is
no doubt that the great poison in the region is this
Israeli policy of domination and the suffering imposed on
the Palestinians, as well as the perception of the body of
the population in the region and beyond of the injustice of
this policy and the equally unjust support of the United
States for this policy."

Secretary General Kofi Annan's spokesman, Fred Eckhard,
said Mr. Brahimi was speaking as a private individual, not
as a United Nations official.

"I think as a preliminary reaction," Mr. Eckhard added, "I
could say that, as you know, he is a former foreign
minister of Algeria, and therefore he brings to the table
strongly held and strongly expressed views about the Middle
East peace process."

Asked if Mr. Annan agreed with Mr. Brahimi's reference to
Israel representing poison, Mr. Eckhard said: "The
secretary general has been expressing his own view in
statements over the last several years. They do not contain
the word `poison.' "

Arye Mekel, Israel's deputy ambassador to the United
Nations, said he questioned the explanation that Mr.
Brahimi was speaking just for himself.

"Such statements put into question the objectivity of the
U.N.," he said.

Mr. Mekel said Israel had not yet decided on its official
reaction to Mr. Brahimi's comments.

Mr. Brahimi is due at the United Nations on Tuesday to
brief the Security Council on his 11 days of consultations
in Iraq and his suggestions for a caretaker government to
follow the June 30 transfer of power from the American-led
coalition.

The United States supported Mr. Brahimi for this task, and
President Bush mentioned him by name at a White House news
conference last week as the man "figuring out the nature of
the entity we'll be handing sovereignty over" to.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Apr, 2004 04:06 pm
ican711nm

When you look up the last and especially the latest news, you'll notice that some people now think different ... again.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Apr, 2004 04:16 pm
I think Saddam's switch to the euro sealed his fate. The US is terrified OPEC may also sell oil in euros. America prints dollars, and if they had to earn euros to buy oil instead of speeding up the printing presses, America might have to start earning its living in the world.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Apr, 2004 04:20 pm
Steve, You have identified the problem that many seem to ignore; the overvalue of the US dollar is gong to be our downfall. I've been very critical about how Greenspan has kept interest rates so low as we circulate more dollars in the world. When people start to catch on, US dollars are going to be used for wallpaper/monopoly money.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Apr, 2004 04:49 pm
Well I'm no international financier ci but it has always amazed me how the US economy seems to be imune from the normal laws of economics applying to other countries.

If you print too much of your own currency, its value falls. But as the dollar is at the moment the world reserve currency, and moreover a valuable resource which all the industrialised world needs is traded in dollars that is oil, the American government can keep printing dollars, and the rest of the world keeps buying them, supporting its value.

With a further 10 countries about to join the EU and thus forming a trading block of 450 million people, its going to be interesting to see how the euro/dollar competition pans out. A lot is at stake.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Apr, 2004 05:51 pm
Steve, It's not only our government that overspends. Private citizens are carrying credit card debt up to their eyeballs, and don't know they're drowning. It's a frigtening situation when consumers do not admit or know they are paying a fortune to carry those debts. I'll do a little internet search on debt to see what I can dig up. I'll be it'll surprise most people.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Apr, 2004 05:55 pm
Here's our national debt, and we're a country of under 300 million people.

The Debt To the Penny
Current Amount

04/26/2004 $7,137,952,926,019.37
0 Replies
 
satt fs
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Apr, 2004 06:35 pm
Someone's debt is an asset for another.

(The public debt is a private asset.)
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Apr, 2004 06:36 pm
http://www.publicdebt.treas.gov/opd/opdpenny.htm
Quote:
The Debt To the Penny
Current Amount

04/26/2004 $7,137,952,926,019.37


Current
Month

04/23/2004 $7,135,539,992,298.41
04/22/2004 $7,131,345,799,396.81
04/21/2004 $7,141,673,039,292.53
04/20/2004 $7,141,785,769,842.52
04/19/2004 $7,142,502,295,952.92
04/16/2004 $7,154,523,400,391.22
04/15/2004 $7,152,609,126,120.43
04/14/2004 $7,162,467,913,839.76
04/13/2004 $7,164,797,958,097.65
04/12/2004 $7,162,025,763,951.47
04/09/2004 $7,160,991,855,678.41
04/08/2004 $7,160,467,386,702.99
04/07/2004 $7,151,013,061,391.15
04/06/2004 $7,151,900,213,503.45
04/05/2004 $7,141,930,542,184.59
04/02/2004 $7,139,841,955,051.34
04/01/2004 $7,122,841,728,666.17


Prior
Months

03/31/2004 $7,131,067,950,647.32
02/27/2004 $7,091,943,110,094.84
01/30/2004 $7,009,234,605,728.06
12/31/2003 $7,001,312,247,818.28
11/28/2003 $6,925,065,499,881.34
10/31/2003 $6,872,675,839,106.67


Prior Fiscal
Years

09/30/2003 $6,783,231,062,743.62
09/30/2002 $6,228,235,965,597.16
09/28/2001 $5,807,463,412,200.06
09/29/2000 $5,674,178,209,886.86
09/30/1999 $5,656,270,901,615.43
09/30/1998 $5,526,193,008,897.62
09/30/1997 $5,413,146,011,397.34
09/30/1996 $5,224,810,939,135.73
09/29/1995 $4,973,982,900,709.39
09/30/1994 $4,692,749,910,013.32
09/30/1993 $4,411,488,883,139.38
09/30/1992 $4,064,620,655,521.66
09/30/1991 $3,665,303,351,697.03
09/28/1990 $3,233,313,451,777.25
09/29/1989 $2,857,430,960,187.32
09/30/1988 $2,602,337,712,041.16
09/30/1987 $2,350,276,890,953.00


SOURCE: BUREAU OF THE PUBLIC DEBT

Looking for more historical information? Visit the Debt
Historical Information archives.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Apr, 2004 06:54 pm
If the average personal income tax rate were 0%, then zero total personal income tax would be collected.

If the average personal income tax rate were 100%, then zero total personal income tax would be collected.

If the average personal income tax rate were X%, then the maximum personal income tax would be collected.

What's X%?

With an average personal income tax rate less or more than X%, the gov't gets less.

Suppose X% won't produce enough income. Then the gov't will have to spend less or go into greater debt.

If the interest rate on debt is kept low, then the cost of debt service will be less.

If the interest rate on debt is kept high, then the cost of debt service will be more.

But low interest rates foster job expansion, and high interest rates foster job contraction.

Which way shall we make the tradeoffs?

ADDENDUM 4/28/2004

When most of the average X% tax burden is transferred to the wealthier people, there are less private disgressionary funds available to invest in job creation.

The wealthier will end up paying less tax than they eventually otherwise would due to their failure to grow wealthier from additional income.

The less wealthy will likewise eventually pay less tax than they eventually otherwise would due to their decreasing opportunities to grow wealthier.

Some of the less wealthy will become poor and create additional welfare expense thereby causing gov't to have fewer funds to finance its other functions, or to borrow even more.

Pernicious envy is an expensive proclivity that serves no ones honorable self-interest.
0 Replies
 
JamesMorrison
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Apr, 2004 07:04 pm
Perhaps I have looked at this latest round of insurgency in Iraq with too much pessimism, although, I still hold that the need for more troops is now self evident--surely this demonstrates my firm grasp of the obvious.

But remember way back with the initiation of hostilities when we all were so concerned? This concern did not include the final outcome, which was a foregone conclusion. Said apprehension was twofold: would Saddam use his WMD in a last ditch effort against coalition troops? Also, what about the street fighting resultant from Saddam's minions retreating into the population centers such as Baghdad, Kirkut, and Falluja? (I was particularly concerned when a large contingent of U.S. Troops had to run the gauntlet at the Falluja gap--a bottle neck between a large body of water and the town of Falluja, an area very well suited for the Iraqi forces to create a choke point to halt the advance, but that concern turned out to be unjustified.)

Instead the Iraqi forces seemed to have simply faded into the woodwork. Similarly, the Republican Guard seemed to have been the victim of some type of David Copperfield prestidigitation. Thus, what we see now has just been postponed actions by insurgent forces.

We, of course, have seen what good comes of "cease fires" with these insurgents--they merely regroup and rearm. That's fair, but we have given them a chance to demonstrate their intent and seen their answer to such efforts towards peace and law and order--they have fooled us once. The deadline for them to turn over their weapons has come and gone. We have now seen the coalition's promises carried out thru the U.S. security's action in the NW suburb of Joulan in Falluja. The insurgents decided they would fire upon our forces, fair enough. But, in turn, so is the U.S. response. With this defensive action, using C-130 gun ships, tank rounds, and helicopter rocket attacks, we have seen the resulting fortifications and restocking of munitions that come from such cease fire agreements with these insurgents.

On a different note, I had often wondered aloud as to whether the Iraqi people deserved the right of self determination and questioned their ability not only to elect good leaders but, more importantly, to stand behind their choices so selected. But I have found a bright spot of hope in this regards. This excerpt from NYT's John Burn's article from today's publication:

Quote:
"Reports from inside Najaf said the growing anger of residents there against Mr. Sadr and his men, who have sown a pattern of lawlessness since their uprising in the city began this month, had taken a startling new turn, with a shadowy group killing at least five militiamen on Sunday and Monday.

Those reports, from residents who reached relatives in Baghdad by telephone, said the killers called themselves the Thulfiqar Army, after a two-bladed sword that Shiite tradition says was used by the patron saint of Shia, Imam Ali, the martyred son-in-law of the Prophet Muhammad. The group distributed leaflets in Najaf threatening to kill members of Mr. Sadr's Mahdi Army unless they fled Najaf immediately, according to accounts.

One Najaf resident said some of Mr. Sadr's militiamen were shedding the black clothing that has been their signature. The same resident said that he knew of two killings of Mahdi Army members on Sunday and that three others had been killed later on Sunday or Monday."


http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/27/international/middleeast/27CND-IRAQ.html?pagewanted=2

This is the seed or kernel that can possibly grow into a legitimate basis of Iraqi self government. Vigilantes? Maybe, but doesn't that term imply an existing system of law and order?

Mr. Burns complete article is not all rosey.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/27/international/middleeast/27CND-IRAQ.html

JM
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2004 04:40 am
Robin Cook gives blistering endorsement to diplomats criticism of Blairs foreign policy.

Headline

The diplomats are right : Blair has been short-changed by the Bush administration.

In today's Independent (subscription) but might transcribe from the print if you all beg me
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2004 07:16 am
And meanwhile....how are things back in sunny Afghanistan?

Quote:
But Amnesty said yesterday it feared Shah's execution "may have been an attempt by powerful political players to eliminate a key witness to human rights abuses". The organisation says Afghanistan's judicial system is "currently incapable of fulfilling even the most basic standards for fair trials". The execution was carried out despite a warning from a United Nations representative that Afghanistan's judicial system could not meet international safeguards...

Meanwhile, suspected Taliban members attacked a government office and a local charity in Panjwayi, in Kandahar province, in southern Afghanistan yesterday, killing a soldier and two humanitarian workers. Local police opened fire, killing two of the attackers.

It is the latest in a series of attacks, believed to have been staged by the resurgent Taliban, that have raised concerns ahead of Afghan elections scheduled for September.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/asia/story.jsp?story=516005
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2004 10:38 am
Transcribed from the Wall Street Journal, page A16, 4/28/2004

OIL-FOR-TERROR by Claudia Rosett

1st paragraph:
Quote:
It's looking more and more as if one of the best reasons to get rid of Saddam Hussein was that it was probably the only way to get rid of Oil-for-Food. The problem wasn't simply that this huge United Nations relief program for Iraq became a gala of graft, theft, fraud, palace-building, and global influence peddling--though all of that was quite bad enough. The picture now emerging is that under U.N. management the Oil-for-Food program, which ran from 1996-2003, served as a cover not only for Saddam's regime to cheat the Iraqi people, but to set up a vast and intricate global network of illicit finance.


3rd paragraph:
Quote:
In a world beset right now by terrorist threats--which depend on terrorist financing--it's time to acknowledge that the U.N. Oil-for-Food program was worse than simply a case of grand larceny. Given Saddam's proclivities for deceit and violence, Oil-for-Food was also a menace to security. By letting Saddam pick his own business partners and draw up his own shopping lists, by keeping the details of his contracts and accounts secret, and by then failing abjectly to supervise the process, the U.N.--through a program meant to aid the people of Iraq--enabled Saddam to line his pockets while bankrolling his pals world-wide. In return, precisely, for what? That is a question former Federal Reserve Chairman Paul Volcker might want to keep in mind as he heads up the official investigation, finally agreed to by U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan, into Oil-for-Food.


5th paragraph:
Quote:
Why on earth, for instance, did the U.N. authorize Saddam to sell oil to at least 65 companies in the financial lockbox of Switzerland. What was the logic behind approving as oil buyers at least 45 firms in Cyprus, seven in Panama and four in Liechtenstein? At the other extreme, would Mr. Annan care to explain why the U.N. authorized Saddam to sell oil to at least 70 companies in the petroleum-soaked United Arab Emirates?


Last two paragraphs:
Quote:
And, although full information is hard to come by, partial lists leaked from the U.N. show that in 2000-2001 alone, Saddam's regime ordered up from Al Wasel and Babel more than $139 million in construction materials, trucks, cars, and so on. Over Mr. Annan's and Mr. Sevan's protests, the U.S. and U.K. blocked some $45 million worth of those contracts; that still left the Saddam front company of Al Wasel & Babel with about $145 million of Oil-fo-Food business for that two year period alone.

Basically, Oil-for-Food was Saddam--just slightly harder to spot, swaddled as he was in that blue U.N. flag.


I cannot vouch for the truth of these excerpts, but I bet they are true though incomplete. I bet that Saddam used much of his U.N. Oil-for-Food program profits to sponsor world-wide terrorist organizations including but not limited to al Qaeda. Want to bet?

I speculate that a great deal of that money stolen from Oil-for-food is currently being spent on intensive propaganda to convince the people in the UK and in the US to abandon Iraq so as to permit Oil-for-Food to be reinstituted and resume sponsoring al Qaeda et al. Without that money, many actual and would-be terrorist murderers will have to do other work for a living.
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2004 11:03 am
If we were to bet, you'd have to be able to prove it.....and I don't think you have the data to do that. It's not there.

I doubt the CIA is so dysfunctional that it couldn't get this proof if it were there to be gotten. So I think it isn't so.......but even if it is, what about all the other countries who are doing this? Why Iraq? It still comes down to that question.

Perhaps it would be a good idea to consider what those who were inside have to tell us about what went on. We should all consider the source, i.e. how credible were these people before they began to speak out?

We have, Paul O'Neill, Sec. of the Treasury and through him we have Alan Greenspan, we all know who he is; Richard Clarke, Terrorism Czar, Colin Powell, Secretary of State, former aide to the Secretary of Defense, National Security Advisor, and Head of the Joint Chiefs.

That's a pretty impressive list of folks, so far, all of whom were well known, over many years for their honestly and integrity, Republicans all. Compare that data to this hunch of yours.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Apr, 2004 11:24 am
Lola, Very good points all; wonder what the rebuff is gonna be.
0 Replies
 
 

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