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Just When Was Chrst Made God?

 
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Dec, 2003 10:27 am
Re: Blind belief
Seeker wrote:
True - we can't know. But if it is the inspired word of God and we go round saying that it could be a load of **** and ignore it, then we're ignoring something important. Rolling Eyes



Very, very weird reasoning.

I am supposing that your guesses about your gods include the notion that your god values honesty.

If the honest answer to the question: Is the Bible the inspired word of God?...

...is "I do not really know!"...

...isn't that what your god would want you to answer?
0 Replies
 
Terry
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Dec, 2003 03:29 pm
Frodo, you can pick and choose parts of the Bible to support just about any version of Jesus/God you like - and that is just what myriad religious denominations do.

Not only that, but as you have discovered, it was politics that determined which books would be included in each Bible (Catholic and Protestant Bibles differ in their choices).

So why do you suppose that the alleged Son of God failed to write down ANYTHING that could be verified as the authentic Word of God?
0 Replies
 
Ruach
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 Dec, 2003 04:48 pm
When a person becomes born again with the spirit of god, the essence of the person is changed. They feel the spiritual change. Right away I felt the pureness of being myself and peace, and a feeling of great hope and forgiveness. I cold not put the Bible away from me. I had to keep reading and studying. [Combining my original born again experience with an angelic encounter that saved my life plus many numerous spiritual occurrances within myself. ]
There is people who are being killed on earth now for being Christian. If they would say , "I am not a Christian" they would live. But just like them, I am so sure of my redemption, I am so sure I will see my Father in Heaven again , [ I know he knows me ] I would rather keep my faith and die for it, IF it came to that point for me. That is my positive faith, able to conquor all.
To say we just do not know... and then cast it aside.... will be of no benefit to anyone...After all what is there that we know for a certainty? In the world, Do we know the sun will rise,
do we know if we will live another day,
do we know tomorrow will might bring WW3.
do we know who will be president next term. All of these things are not written in stone (except the 10 commandments Razz ) But at a point there builds up enough evidence pointing to the sun will rise tomorrow, scientifically the sun does its rising and setting on time just as throughtout history shows. We have a dependence on that remaining constant. Bush might be the next president again, polls show he is still very favored. And WW3 will not start tomorrow we depend on our Govt. to see that it doesn't and we hope we will live another day.
Clearly evidence points to something more in the belief of Christ. All people who accept him and worship him are more than conquerors, they are united in a spiritual realm that has proven itself to them all, in one way or another. That spiritual realm involves:
worship, faith, angels, miracles, ministries, blessings, deliverances, promises, righteousness, teachings, learning, healings, prophecy, speaking in tongues and understanding tongues, the ability to discern spirits and baptising. As Jesus said to Timothy, who wanted to see the wounds on the risen Christ, Blessed are those who cannot see but believe still. Believers have come to depend on the promises of God.
So that it does not appear that I am belittling the life that I lead that it is rosy and I wear discolored glasses or am touched in the mind I will put down some scripture that all people go through, yet some unaware, and some "Christians" remain faithful irregardless of the circumstances.

In much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses,
In stripes, in imprisonments, in tumults, in labours, in watchings, in fastings By pureness, by knowledge, by longsuffering, by kindness, by the Holy Ghost, by love unfeigned, By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left,
By honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report: as deceivers, and yet true; As unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and, behold, we live; as chastened, and not killed; As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things.

We are all temples of God. We all contain powers given to us by God. None should take the Grace of God in vain. 2 Cents
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 31 Dec, 2003 04:50 pm
"Just When Was Chrst Made God? "


Not really sure who you mean by Chrst, but if you mean that Jewish fellah, that was a week ago Tuesday.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Jan, 2004 09:23 am
The answer is when the the first of the ten commandments was broken.
0 Replies
 
QKid
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jan, 2004 04:23 pm
Jesus Christ was never made God. It all comes to how a person defines God. I believe that God created the entire universe and everything in it. He knows all and can do all. But this is where Muslims differ; Muslims believe that God is not ANYWHERE in His own creation. If He would come into His creation in any form, then He would be limiting and belittle Himself. So Jesus Christ cannot be God because Jesus Christ was a human being. God will not come down to earth. If He did, then he is not God anymore.
0 Replies
 
Seeker
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jan, 2004 01:35 pm
He's often called the Son of God. There are parts of the Bible were he says he is one with God and God is one with him - could this be were we get it from? Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
Ruach
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2004 02:06 pm
Seeker,

Quote:
He's often called the Son of God. There are parts of the Bible were he says he is one with God and God is one with him - could this be were we get it from?


Scripture that Jesus stated is the best evidence to the Q.

Quote:
John 17: [5] And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
[22] And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
[24] Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.



Qkid,

Quote:
If He would come into His creation in any form, then He would be limiting and belittle Himself. So Jesus Christ cannot be God because Jesus Christ was a human being. God will not come down to earth. If He did, then he is not God anymore.


GOD can do anything.

Quote:
Romans 1: [23] And changed the *glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man,* and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.


When Jesus was born he was called Immanuel. That means in original Hebrew, "God is with us."
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2004 05:38 pm
Ruach wrote:

When Jesus was born he was called Immanuel. That means in original Hebrew, "God is with us."



Really!

And where exactly does it say that when Jesus was born, he was called Immanuel.

(Mind you, I am not looking for a prophecy that says he will be called Immanuel -- but actual confirmation that in fact, he was.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Jul, 2005 04:20 am
Well, well, well, Frank, I have been reading quite a few of your posts today. And, I can see you are doing here what you do in the others, bashing the Christians and their beliefs. But, you know what? You told me you were a kind, moral, decent kind of guy. You just forgot to add that is only if one agrees with you.

You are very polite and respectful to those that are agnostics, atheists, and non-believers. And to them, I could see how you could be perceived as a kind, moral, decent kind of guy.

So, who's next in line for a little Christian bashing?
0 Replies
 
Sturgis
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Jul, 2005 06:21 am
Frank Apisa wrote:


And where exactly does it say that when Jesus was born, he was called Immanuel.

(Mind you, I am not looking for a prophecy that says he will be called Immanuel -- but actual confirmation that in fact, he was.


Well, even though you don't want it I am more than willing to give it to you Frank.

Isaiah chapter7 verse14-----"Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, a young woman shall conceive and bear a son and shall call his name Immanuel." (RSV)

Similarly: "Behold a virgin shall conceive and bear a son and shall call his name Immanuel" (KJV)

Taking it a step further Frank, the name Immanuel means "with us is God" or "God with us". The name Immanuel was given as part of a prophecy because the name Immanuel describes that Jesus would be "God united with man" and that "God would be dwelling with man".

Jesus translates to Savior, which was the description given of what Immanuel would do and be while He was GOd with us. This is essentially why Mary was told to name her child Jesus.

Think of it as Mary was instructed to name her son Savior. Get it? Good. You see it isn't so much that Jesus is ever directly called Immanuel, because Immanuel had it's own meaning and if He had been named Immanuel He would not have been able to do the work which He was sent forth to do by His Father God. So Immanuel, or, "God with us" is our "Savior". Immanuel/Jesus.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Jul, 2005 06:24 am
Momma Angel
Turn about is fair play. Christianity has been doing the bashing for over 1500 years. That I suppose is acceptable to you.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Jul, 2005 06:35 am
There is no proof that the man described as Jesus ever existed. Nor is there any proof that the sayings and messages attributed to him came from him or were a figment of an over active imaginations.
0 Replies
 
Sturgis
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Jul, 2005 06:40 am
au1929 wrote:
... Nor is there any proof that the sayings and messages attributed to him came from him or were a figment of an over active imaginations.


Well which is it? Actual things He said or overactive imagination? You have to go with one of them or both of them but to decide that neither is correct says that the sayings and messages do not even exist or are written anywhere when clearly they are.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Jul, 2005 06:58 am
sturgis
What is it you don't understand? Did the man Jesus as described in your bible actually exist? And if there were such a person were any of the acts or sayings attributed to him real or just figments of the imagination to support the fiction.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Jul, 2005 09:08 am
Momma Angel wrote:
Well, well, well, Frank, I have been reading quite a few of your posts today. And, I can see you are doing here what you do in the others, bashing the Christians and their beliefs. But, you know what? You told me you were a kind, moral, decent kind of guy. You just forgot to add that is only if one agrees with you.

You are very polite and respectful to those that are agnostics, atheists, and non-believers. And to them, I could see how you could be perceived as a kind, moral, decent kind of guy.

So, who's next in line for a little Christian bashing?


I am as kind, moral, and decent as you, MA...or any other A2Ker.

Religion in general, and Christianity in particular...are, in my opinion, a great evil on this planet...and I am calling attention to that evil.

If you want to suppose that means I am less kind, moral, or decent than you...do so.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Jul, 2005 09:13 am
Sturgis wrote:
Frank Apisa wrote:


And where exactly does it say that when Jesus was born, he was called Immanuel.

(Mind you, I am not looking for a prophecy that says he will be called Immanuel -- but actual confirmation that in fact, he was.


Well, even though you don't want it I am more than willing to give it to you Frank.

Isaiah chapter7 verse14-----"Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, a young woman shall conceive and bear a son and shall call his name Immanuel." (RSV)

Similarly: "Behold a virgin shall conceive and bear a son and shall call his name Immanuel" (KJV)

Taking it a step further Frank, the name Immanuel means "with us is God" or "God with us". The name Immanuel was given as part of a prophecy because the name Immanuel describes that Jesus would be "God united with man" and that "God would be dwelling with man".

Jesus translates to Savior, which was the description given of what Immanuel would do and be while He was GOd with us. This is essentially why Mary was told to name her child Jesus.

Think of it as Mary was instructed to name her son Savior. Get it? Good. You see it isn't so much that Jesus is ever directly called Immanuel, because Immanuel had it's own meaning and if He had been named Immanuel He would not have been able to do the work which He was sent forth to do by His Father God. So Immanuel, or, "God with us" is our "Savior". Immanuel/Jesus.


Sturgis...since you have poked your nose into this...I will ask you the same question I asked Rauch...and which neither of you has answered:

Raush wrote: When Jesus was born, he was called Immanuel.

I mean...was he there? Does he know someone who was there? Is it written somewhere?

What is the basis for Raush's comment "When Jesus was born, he was called Immanuel?"
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Jul, 2005 09:33 am
Frank Apisa wrote:
Momma Angel wrote:
Well, well, well, Frank, I have been reading quite a few of your posts today. And, I can see you are doing here what you do in the others, bashing the Christians and their beliefs. But, you know what? You told me you were a kind, moral, decent kind of guy. You just forgot to add that is only if one agrees with you.

You are very polite and respectful to those that are agnostics, atheists, and non-believers. And to them, I could see how you could be perceived as a kind, moral, decent kind of guy.

So, who's next in line for a little Christian bashing?


I am as kind, moral, and decent as you, MA...or any other A2Ker.

Religion in general, and Christianity in particular...are, in my opinion, a great evil on this planet...and I am calling attention to that evil.

If you want to suppose that means I am less kind, moral, or decent than you...do so.
Frank usually regurgitates here when I point out that Revelation chapter 17 and 18 describes the destruction of the very religions he judges to be so evil.
Of course, he would have to believe the bible in order to understand this, hence the puking.http://web4.ehost-services.com/el2ton1/puke1.gif

Have a nice day.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Jul, 2005 09:53 am
Frank Apisa wrote:
Frodo wrote:
I am a Christian. But some people who also claim to be Christians too believe that Jesus Christ was God - a belief that goes beyond what the Bible teaches about Him.

What they do not understand is that Jesus Christ is a man and never been the true God for there is only one God who is the Father in heaven.

The Jesus-is-God doctrine was just a man-made doctrine declared as scriptural after the Council of Nicaea convened in 325AD.

Therefore, I quoted:

"But our recognition of Him ought to be in accordance with what the Bible prescribes. Anything beyond this would go against the expressed will of God. "


I understand that.

Now try to understand me.

Who made the Bible the expressed will of God?
I know this will offend your sensibilities, Frank, so I post it gladly:
Paul wrote:
All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness. (2Timothy 3:16)
We learn about Jesus and his Father in the bible.
The bible may be, as you are wont to proclaim, a fairy tale. (Proceed at your own risk!)
Nevertheless, arguments about Jesus should originate with the source of our knowlege.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Jul, 2005 09:58 am
neologist wrote:
Frank Apisa wrote:
Frodo wrote:
I am a Christian. But some people who also claim to be Christians too believe that Jesus Christ was God - a belief that goes beyond what the Bible teaches about Him.

What they do not understand is that Jesus Christ is a man and never been the true God for there is only one God who is the Father in heaven.

The Jesus-is-God doctrine was just a man-made doctrine declared as scriptural after the Council of Nicaea convened in 325AD.

Therefore, I quoted:

"But our recognition of Him ought to be in accordance with what the Bible prescribes. Anything beyond this would go against the expressed will of God. "


I understand that.

Now try to understand me.

Who made the Bible the expressed will of God?
I know this will offend your sensibilities, Frank, so I post it gladly:
Paul wrote:
All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness. (2Timothy 3:16)
We learn about Jesus and his Father in the bible.
The bible may be, as you are wont to proclaim, a fairy tale. (Proceed at your own risk!)
Nevertheless, arguments about Jesus should originate with the source of our knowlege.


Ahhhh...so the Bible says it is the expressed will of god...therefore it is the expressed will of god.

Talk about circular reasoning!!!!

Don't you ever tire of inane postings, Neo?
0 Replies
 
 

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