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Just When Was Chrst Made God?

 
 
Frodo
 
Reply Mon 22 Dec, 2003 01:49 am
The origin and evolution of the doctrine on Christ’s alleged deity

No man has ever lived in this world and touched the lives of so great a number of people than our Lord Jesus Christ. His life has always been a great source of inspiration and hope to humanity. Countless people have placed their faith in Him and are looking forward to His second coming when he will reward His servants with eternal bliss in His Father’s heavenly abode.
But our recognition of Him ought to be in accordance with what the Bible prescribes. Anything beyond this would go against the expressed will of God.

What the Bible teaches about Christ

“But now you seek to kill me, a man who has told you the truth which I heard from God; this is not what Abraham did.”
John 8:40

“For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,”
I Timothy 2:5

“Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him as you yourselves know. This man was handed to you over by God’s set purpose and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross.”
Acts 2:22-23

Christ clearly stated that He is a man who has told the truth which He heard from God. That there is God from whom Christ heard the truth is just a proof that Christ is different from God.
The only Mediator between God and men is a man and not another god. Apostle Peter declared that Jesus of Nazareth was a man attested by God. That Christ was conceived and born of a woman is expressly stated in the Gospel of Christ according to Matthew (Mt.1:18,20). Therefore, the claim that Christ is God contradicts what the apostles taught. Likewise, to introduce Christ as God contradicts the very statement of God that He is neither man nor a son of man (Numbers 23:19). God neither allows man to become God like Him nor does He allow Himself to be both God and man (Ezekiel 28:2, Hosea 11:9). Christ’s being a man proves that He is not God. And the apostles were unanimous in this regard. This is the truth that early Christians adhered to.
Thus, the original teaching concerning Christ as recorded in the Bible is that He is a man.

The early warning

As long as the apostles were alive to defend the true faith, the teaching on Christ was held in check. As early as their time, the apostles warned about the possible deviation from the original teaching concerning Christ.

“I am afraid that your minds will be corrupted and that you will abandon your full and pure devotion to Christ – in the same way that Eve was deceived by the snake’s clever lies. For you gladly tolerate anyone who comes to you and preaches a different Jesus, not the one we preached; and you accept a spirit and a gospel completely different from the Spirit and gospel you received from us.”
II Corinthians 11:3-4,

“My dear friends, do not believe all who claim to have the Spirit, but test them to find out if the spirit they have comes from God. For many false prophets have gone out everywhere. This is how you will be able to know whether it is God’s Spirit: anyone who acknowledges that Jesus Christ came as a human being has the Spirit who comes from God. But anyone who denies this about Jesus does not have the Spirit from God. The spirit that he has is from the Enemy of Christ; you heard that it would come, and now it is here in the world already.”
I John 4:1-3

“Watch out for the false leaders – and there are many of them around – who don’t believe that Jesus Christ came to earth as a human being with a body like ours. Such people are against the truth and against Christ.”
II John 1:7

During the times of the apostles, there were people who were easily taken away from the true teaching taught by Christ and His apostles. They denied the humanity of Jesus Christ. According to Apostle John, these people are against the truth and against Christ or anti-Christ.

“When we read Paul’s Letter to the church at Corinth, it becomes clear that many problems faced the church within its own membership.
“Paul’s other letters also reveal controversies and power-struggles in the midst of encouragement and growth… Some people tried to mix Christian and non-Christian religious beliefs. The first letter of John speaks of those who once belonged to the Christian community but had now departed. They denied the true humanity of Jesus Christ.”
- Tim Dowley
Eerdman’s Handbook to the History of Christianity
p. 73

While some apostles were still alive, some Christians departed from the truth by denying the humanity of Jesus Christ. Thus, Apostle John in his letter addressed these people. He gave a warning to the Christians, lest they would be misled. But after the death of the apostles, a new doctrine on Christ evolved – that Christ is God.

The formalization of the dogma

“Like its worship, the faith of the Church underwent some development, and, in fact, its chief dogma, belief in the divinity of Jesus Christ, was not defined until the Council of Nicaea in 325.”
- Thomas Bokenkotter
A Concise History of the Catholic Church
pp. 58-59

“The earliest time known at which Jesus was deified was, after the New Testament writers, in the letters of Ignatius, at the beginning of the second century.”
- Augustus Hopkins Strong
Systematic Theology
p. 305

The doctrine on the deity of Christ was defined only when the Council of Nicaea convened in the fourth century – over 200 years after the Bible had been completed; all the apostles were already dead at that time. Even prior to the formalization of the Christ-is-God doctrine, there were people already upholding this doctrine, Ignatius of Antioch, a bishop, was the one who introduced the teaching that Christ is God. This doctrine did not originate from the apostles. The warning of Apostle Paul concerning the teaching of different Jesus, thus, started to be realized. But did this teaching readily gain acceptance among the people? Were there no objections to this doctrinal innovation?

“The very fact that as late as the fourth century there were those within Christianity who, despite their acceptance of the Epistles of Paul and the Gospel of John, still argued against the divinity of the preexistent Christ shows that there was nothing in these writings which could be taken as conclusive evidence of a belief on the part of Paul and John that the preexistent Christ was God in the literal sense of term.”
- Harry Austryn Wolfson
The Philosophy of the Church Fathers
Vol. I, pp. 306-307

The point of conflict

In spite of several objections to the Christ-is-God doctrine, how did this become pervasive in “Christendom”? What circumstances gave rise to this teaching? How long did it take for this doctrine to be declared by the Church as official?

“The problem of the relationship between God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ became an acute problem in the Church soon after the cessation of persecution. In Western Europe, Tertullian for example, insisted upon the unity of essence in three personalities as the correct interpretation of the Trinity. Hence, the dispute centered in the (Catholic) Church has always had to fight Unitarian conceptions of Christ…
“In 318 or 319, Alexander, the bishop of Alexandria, discussed with his presbyters ‘The Unity of the Trinity’. One of the presbyters, Arius an ascetic scholar and popular preacher, attacked the sermon because he believed that it failed to uphold a distinction among the persons in Godhead… Arius, who was backed by Eusebius of Nicomedia (to be distinguished from Eusebius of Caesarea) and a minority of those present, insisted that Christ had not existed from all eternity but had a beginning by the creative act of God prior to time. He believed that Christ was of a different (heteros) essence or substance than the Father. Because of the virtue of His life and His obedience to God’s will, Christ was to be considered divine. But Arius believed that Christ was a being, created out of nothing, subordinate to the Father and of a different essence from the Father. To Arius He was divine but not deity.”
- Earle E. Cairns
Christianity Through the Centuries
pp. 142-143

“The controversy became so bitter that Alexander had Arius condemned by a synod. Arius fled to the friendly palace of Eusebius, the bishop of Nicomedia… since the dispute centered in Asia Minor, it threatened the unity of the Empire as well as that of the Church.”
- Ibid., p. 143

The emperor’s intervention

When the controversy regarding the nature of Christ became serious, the unity of the empire and of the Catholic Church was threatened. This prompted no less than the roman emperor to intervene. He attempted to resolve the conflict by convening a council of bishops.

“The emperor therefore stepped into the controversy and extended invitations for a great council to be held at Nicaea (325).”
- Bernard Lohse
A Short History of Christian Doctrine
p. 51

“The first emperor to become a Christian, Constantine had basically no understanding whatsoever of the questions that were being asked in Greek theology. In the controversy over the doctrine of Trinity he saw nothing more than unnecessary bickering of theologians, which might best be avoided by eschewing all speculation and by living together in love and harmony. At the same time Constantine was concerned about keeping or restoring ecclesiastical peace. After all, the Church had an important service to perform in his empire.”
- Ibid.

The emperor’s intervention over this doctrinal dispute was simply not right. How could an emperor who knew nothing of theological issues being discussed solve such a delicate problem?
Constantine was only concerned about keeping or restoring peace and unity and the important role that the Catholic Church would have in his empire. Thus, whether or not the disputing officials of the Church agree on Christ’s alleged deity or on His humanity was of no bearing to Constantine as long as they would settle to only one stand that could promote unity.

The Council of Nicaea

So, what did Constantine do to influence the bishops who convened so that his interests and wishes would be served well?

“For the first time in its history, Christianity in the Roman Empire was no longer the persecuted religion… From a purely external point of view the change in the situation was evident to the bishops in the fact that they no longer needed to move about secretly nor did they have to use the normal means of travel to visit one another. They now had the privilege of coming to the council by means of transportation provided by the state, i.e., means which were intended for use by ranking state officials. At Nicaea the emperor provided lodging for the bishops in his palace. It was there, too, that the discussions took place, and in the presence of the emperor at that… It is understandable if the bishops showed their gratitude by generous efforts to oblige the emperor.
“In the course of the long discussions which now took place at Nicaea the emperor intervened personally several times.”
- Ibid.
pp. 51-52

“The Council could not agree and after two years, impatient at the delay, the Emperor Constantine appeared and addressed the assembly, ordering them to agree on the divinity of Christ (how could the emperor claim the divinity if the Savior’s was denied?).”
Challenge of a Liberal Faith
p. 60

The hospitable accommodation granted to the bishops by no less than the emperor himself was enough to influence their decision on the issue. In fact, they could not help but yield to the demands of the emperor as an expression of their gratitude for all the favors they had enjoyed during the meeting. Thus, when the decision was to be called for, it was the emperor’s will that prevailed.
Finally, in 325 AD, the council concluded with the decision in response to the order of the emperor. From then on, Christ has been recognized by the Catholic Church as God.

“Thus, for example, it was not until 325 A.D. at the Council of Nicaea, that the Church defined for us that it was an article of faith that Jesus is truly God.”
- Rev. Clement H. Crock
Discourses on the Apostles’ Creed
p. 206

The Council fails to resolve the dispute

The issue on what the Catholic Church, the official religion of the Roman Empire, must stand for concerning Christ might had been settled, but the disputes and arguments over the issue on Christ’s alleged deity did not stop. Rather, the council was hit by more serious attacks.

“The Council of Nicaea was convened in A.D. 325 to settle the dispute… The decision of the Council did not terminate the controversy, but was rather only the beginning of it. A settlement forced upon the Church by the strong hand of the emperor could not satisfy and was also of uncertain duration. It made the determination of the Christian faith dependent on imperial caprice and even on court intrigues.”
- Louis Berkhof
The History of Christian Doctrines
pp. 86-87

“The Council of Nicaea set many precedents. The Emperor called it, influenced its decision-making and used his civil power to give its decrees virtually the status of imperial law. The Council introduced a new kind of orthodoxy, which for the first time gave non-biblical terms critical importance. The Creed’s own form of expression was influenced by the heresy it outlawed.
“Nicaea was followed by more than half a century of discord and disorder in the Eastern Church, which at times spilled over into the west.”
- Tim Dowley
Eerdman’s Handbook to the History of Christianity
p. 160

It has now become obvious that what Catholics and Protestants uphold concerning Christ’s deity is an unsettled controversy. Christ did not teach this teaching – neither did His apostles. Thus, this teaching must be rejected.
The teaching that Christ is God is not the original teaching; rather it is a manmade doctrine and, thus, is worthless in the sight of God.

“In vain do they worship me, teaching human precepts as doctrines.”
Matthew 15:9

The admonition of the apostles

Having been forewarned of the surge of the false teachers who would teach a false Jesus, a true Christian must be vigilant that he may not be led astray.

“So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.”
II Thessalonians 2:15

Jesus Christ is a man. Nowhere in the Bible can be found that He is God. Christ is not and never been the true God. He is the Son of God, the Savior, the head of the Church, the Mediator, the Lord, and everything that God made Him to be, but He is a man. The true Christ is a man, not a God. This is the original doctrine upheld by the early Christians, not the dogma formulated by the bishops of the Catholic Church and formalized at the Council of Nicaea in 325 A.D.
For a true Christian, nothing can be more important than to uphold the true words of God that serve as a firm foundation upon which he is anchored. Such is the characteristic that he should possess for him to become firm and steadfast.

“Then we shall no longer be children, carried by the waves and blown about by every shifting wind of the teaching of deceitful people, who lead others into error by the tricks they invent.”
Ephesians 4:14

Now, for the sake of salvation, continue searching for the truth. Look into your long-held belief in Christ and compare it with what the Bible teaches about Him. You might have the wrong Christ after all. If so, then all the services you think you are rendering to Him, the prayers and entreaties addressed to Him, the faith you profess for Him would all be in vain.

Take your chance, before it’s too late.
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Dec, 2003 05:22 am
Welcome to A2K, Frodo.

You ask, "Just when was Christ made God?"

But since your first paragraph contains the comment...

Quote:
But our recognition of Him ought to be in accordance with what the Bible prescribes. Anything beyond this would go against the expressed will of God.


...aren't you jumping the gun?

Shouldn't your first question be: "Just when was the Bible made the "expressed will of God?"

I happen to think it is silly to suppose it is...but perhaps you have some evidence for guessing that it is that you can share.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Dec, 2003 12:00 pm
If your intent is to Proselytize I doubt the a2k is a good forum for the attempt.
0 Replies
 
blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Dec, 2003 12:06 pm
The thought strikes me that if someone asked Jesus "Who died and made you boss?" he could answer, "I did". Just a thought. Very Happy
0 Replies
 
Frodo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Dec, 2003 09:47 pm
I am a Christian. But some people who also claim to be Christians too believe that Jesus Christ was God - a belief that goes beyond what the Bible teaches about Him.

What they do not understand is that Jesus Christ is a man and never been the true God for there is only one God who is the Father in heaven.

The Jesus-is-God doctrine was just a man-made doctrine declared as scriptural after the Council of Nicaea convened in 325AD.

Therefore, I quoted:

"But our recognition of Him ought to be in accordance with what the Bible prescribes. Anything beyond this would go against the expressed will of God. "
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Dec, 2003 10:08 pm
Frodo wrote:
I am a Christian. But some people who also claim to be Christians too believe that Jesus Christ was God - a belief that goes beyond what the Bible teaches about Him.

What they do not understand is that Jesus Christ is a man and never been the true God for there is only one God who is the Father in heaven.

The Jesus-is-God doctrine was just a man-made doctrine declared as scriptural after the Council of Nicaea convened in 325AD.

Therefore, I quoted:

"But our recognition of Him ought to be in accordance with what the Bible prescribes. Anything beyond this would go against the expressed will of God. "


I understand that.

Now try to understand me.

Who made the Bible the expressed will of God?
0 Replies
 
PatriUgg
 
  1  
Reply Mon 22 Dec, 2003 10:34 pm
Which Bible is the correct one?
If I write my own, could I recognize anyone I want as God, or pick and choose my own Words Of God?

There's a lot of room for flexibility between and even within Bibles, so it's logically necessary for me to ask which distinct understandings we are to discuss here, just for you.
0 Replies
 
Seeker
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Dec, 2003 04:02 am
Jesus, bibles etc.
The Bible - The Bible might not tell us its the word of God, but all the prophets tell us they are telling us what God told them etc., so it seems to be a compilation of things inspired by God. Which brings us to an interesting topic - why where so many gospels proclaiming different stories denounced as heretical?

Jesus - I see your point, it's interesting. What do you think of the trinity then? If Jesus isn't God, who got the wrong idea? Where did we go wrong? Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Dec, 2003 07:26 am
Re: Jesus, bibles etc.
Seeker wrote:
The Bible - The Bible might not tell us its the word of God, but all the prophets tell us they are telling us what God told them etc., so it seems to be a compilation of things inspired by God. Which brings us to an interesting topic - why where so many gospels proclaiming different stories denounced as heretical?

You mean simply because they TELL us they are divinely inspired, we should accept that?

Should we also accept all those televangelists who tell us that they are divinely inspired?

This is terrible reasoning, Seeker.

Jesus - I see your point, it's interesting. What do you think of the trinity then? If Jesus isn't God, who got the wrong idea? Where did we go wrong? Rolling Eyes


My guess you folks all went wrong when you bought into all this nonsense in the first place.
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Dec, 2003 07:46 am
Quote:
If your intent is to Proselytize I doubt the a2k is a good forum for the attempt.


I agree. If that IS your aim, I think that it would have been much wiser to "check out the lay of the land", and get to know the people, before coming on so strongly about religion.
0 Replies
 
husker
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Dec, 2003 08:46 am
taking watch
0 Replies
 
eoe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Dec, 2003 09:51 am
Frodo, your original post reminded me of taking a casual stroll in a familiar neighborhood only to turn a corner and wham, out of nowhere, a street preacher with a bullhorn.
Alot of times, most of the time, the message is lost in the approach.
0 Replies
 
Seeker
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Dec, 2003 03:38 pm
Proof...Ok, maybe not
Frank, yes, you are right. You cannot believe that things are inspired by God because prophets tell you so. What I am trying to say is, while the Bible doesn't have Word of God printed across it (well not originally anyway) these referances are what led Christians to believe it as divine. You could then go on to say you can't believe in Jesus just because the four gospel writers said so, etc. I don't think I made my meaning clear - does that explain my point better? Hope so! Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
Ruach
 
  1  
Reply Tue 23 Dec, 2003 11:38 pm
Frodo, hello.

The Bible states that power and glory, blessing and honor belong to him who sits upon the throne, which is the lamb, forever and ever. And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God. The one who is faithful and true who sits upon the throne. God revealed himself to man by becoming a man. All things were made for Jesus and through Jesus, he is the WORD that spoke creation into existance, and he was there in the beginning.

It appears to me that Jesus did know he was filled with Gods spirit from very early in his life. His spirit was full of the wisdom of God, and he called God his father, because he was still in the flesh. There is many times in the Bible that his disciples and strangers worshipped Jesus and he does not stop them from doing this.

God tole Moses that the Israelites could call him I Am that I Am.
Jesus told his disciples that before Abraham was, I Am. That I Am in My Father. He who has seen me has seen the Father.

When he was born, scripture states that he shall be called Emanuel, which means God is with us.
Quote:
Jesus said to his Father,
"Father, glorify me with your own self with the glory which I had with
you before the world existed."
Jesus did not marvel at the works that he did, like his disciples and his mother marveled. For Jesus knew that he had Gods Holy Spirit within him which testified to Jesus that you are God and can do all things. And Jesus did all things that God in Heaven wanted him to do while on earth.

When Jesus was resurrected he was seated upon the throne in Heaven and will bring all things under his dominion. into glory. Isaiah states he is the everlasting Father... 9, 6
Quote:
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The EVERLASTING FATHER, The Prince of Peace.
Very Happy
0 Replies
 
Frodo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Dec, 2003 03:25 am
Well I believe that you thoughtfully misunderstood the verse written in Isaiah 9:6...

I'll explain that later... with the clarification from the Bible of course.

I have to go for now.

Confused
0 Replies
 
Frodo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Dec, 2003 03:25 am
Ruach,

Well I believe that you thoughtfully misunderstood the verse written in Isaiah 9:6...

I'll explain that later... with the clarification from the Bible of course.

I have to go for now.

Confused
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Dec, 2003 07:11 am
Re: Proof...Ok, maybe not
Seeker wrote:
Frank, yes, you are right. You cannot believe that things are inspired by God because prophets tell you so. What I am trying to say is, while the Bible doesn't have Word of God printed across it (well not originally anyway) these referances are what led Christians to believe it as divine. You could then go on to say you can't believe in Jesus just because the four gospel writers said so, etc. I don't think I made my meaning clear - does that explain my point better? Hope so! Rolling Eyes



My point is that the same kind of blind, unquestioning acceptance that allows you to suppose that the Bible tells us about God...

...is what makes some people think Jesus was God.

That is why blind, unquestioning acceptance is so absurd.

Why not just acknowledge that you really do not know for sure if the Bible is the inspired word of God...or just a bunch of bullschidt written by relatively unsophisticated, relatively ununknowledgeable, superstitious ancient Hebrews.

The you wouldn't have to ask the kinds of questions you are asking.
0 Replies
 
Seeker
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Dec, 2003 09:52 am
Blind belief
True - we can't know. But if it is the inspired word of God and we go round saying that it could be a load of **** and ignore it, then we're ignoring something important. Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Dec, 2003 09:57 am
Seeker- In other words, you really DON'T know, but you are covering your bets! :wink:
0 Replies
 
eoe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Dec, 2003 10:10 am
And then there's the King James version. Arguably rewritten and selfishly reinterpreted.
0 Replies
 
 

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