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Non-Christian - not my brother

 
 
Thomas
 
  3  
Reply Thu 20 Jan, 2011 08:00 pm
@joefromchicago,
joefromchicago wrote:
I can't imagine. If you're not a Christian, why would you be offended to be told that you're not a Christian?

You misrepresent, I suspect on purpose, what people are offended by. They are offended by the impression that Alabaman Christians will enjoy a privileged relation with their governor---"you are my brothers and sisters"---whereas Alabaman non-Christians will be confined to some inferior status---"you are not my brothers and sisters."

This impression, reasonably derived from the governor's words, raises obvious freedom-of-religion problems: "When government associates one set of religious beliefs with the state and identifies non-adherents as outsiders, it encroaches upon the individual’s decision about whether and how to worship." (Supreme Court opinion in McCreary v. ACLU of Kentucky) Governor Bentley has come awfully close to doing just this. That is what people are taking offense from.
Thomas
 
  2  
Reply Thu 20 Jan, 2011 08:13 pm
@Arella Mae,
Arella Mae wrote:
Why would someone be offended by the truth? If one is not a Christian then they are not a Christian. Big deal!

You are making the same mistake as Joefromchicago. The big deal is not that if you're not a Christian, you're not a Christian. The big deal is that if you're not a Christian, you're excluded from a privileged status that Christians enjoy with the governor, simply by virtue of being Christians.
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Jan, 2011 08:17 pm
@Thomas,
Nowhere did he say if you were not a Christian he was going to treat you differently. Well, then I guess I am excluded from a privileged status that non-believers enjoy because they have a non-believing politicians in my state? Thomas, seriously, I find that ridiculous.
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Jan, 2011 08:25 pm
@Arella Mae,
Arella Mae wrote:
Nowhere did he say if you were not a Christian he was going to treat you differently. Well, then I guess I am excluded from a privileged status that non-believers enjoy because they have a non-believing politicians in my state? Thomas, seriously, I find that ridiculous.

Louisiana's governor Jindal, whom the Wall Street Journal describes as a convert to Roman Catholicism, is a practicing nonbeliever? That's news to me.
wayne
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Jan, 2011 08:25 pm
@joefromchicago,
All you're doing is refusing to validate the feelings of others, that differ from your own.
Silly or not ( in whomever's opinion ), the feelings of others are deserving of validation, especially when they are not our own.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Jan, 2011 08:27 pm
@wayne,
wayne wrote:
How considerate is it to tell the atheist you'll pray for them.


I don't mind if they do - but please don't tell me - the results aren't encouraging.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12082681/ns/health-heart_health/

Quote:
In the largest study of its kind, researchers found that having people pray for heart bypass surgery patients had no effect on their recovery. In fact, patients who knew they were being prayed for had a slightly higher rate of complications.

Researchers emphasized that their work can't address whether God exists or answers prayers made on another's behalf. The study can only look for an effect from prayers offered as part of the research, they said.

They also said they had no explanation for the higher complication rate in patients who knew they were being prayed for, in comparison to patients who only knew it was possible prayers were being said for them.


best outcome? knowing you're being prayed for won't harm you

http://health.howstuffworks.com/wellness/natural-medicine/alternative/prayer-healing2.htm

Quote:
n a similar vein, those conducting studies of the effects of intercessory prayer are well aware that their study populations (the people being studied) aren't scientifically pure. Groups that are not meant to receive prayer in a study may be prayed for by people outside of the experiment. And those who are meant to receive prayer may also receive additional prayer from others outside of the study. Patients, too, may pray for themselves. Each of these factors effectively destroys the reliability of the data. This is akin to an experiment testing the potential for a fertilizer to grow grass where the researcher can't say with absolute certainty that no one else has come along afterward and added more fertilizer.

Despite -- or possibly because of -- the obstacles, the debate over the medical value of intercessory prayer continues. As long as people believe in prayer, science will probably continue to investigate its effects. But until methodologies can be refined or until irrefutable evidence for or against prayer's power is uncovered, belief in prayer as a factor in healing will continue to be a matter of faith.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Jan, 2011 08:28 pm
@Thomas,
You KNOW Catholics aren't Christians.

or at least that's what my hairdresser told me
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Jan, 2011 08:31 pm
@Thomas,
I said POLITICIANS. I didn't state any particular politician.
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Jan, 2011 08:32 pm
@wayne,
wayne wrote:

All you're doing is refusing to validate the feelings of others, that differ from your own.
Silly or not ( in whomever's opinion ), the feelings of others are deserving of validation, especially when they are not our own.
I am suppose to validate the feelings of people I don't even know? I don't need anyone to validate my feelings. I am a grownup.
Thomas
 
  3  
Reply Thu 20 Jan, 2011 08:37 pm
@Arella Mae,
Mr Bentley isn't just any old politician. He's the governor, the number-one politician in the state of Alabama---just as Mr. Jindal is the number-one politician in the state of Louisiana.
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Jan, 2011 08:37 pm
Seriously, this has all just gotten out of hand. He apologized and yet that isn't good enough. He can't take the words back. How many of us have said things that hurt other's feelings, insulted others, etc.? EVERYONE of us! He is human. He made a mistake and unfortunately, because people won't forgive and forget he'll probably have to live with it forever.

When Obama said this is no longer a Christian nation it didn't offend me. Who cares if he thinks it is a Christian nation or not?
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Jan, 2011 08:39 pm
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:

Mr Bentley isn't just any old politician. He's the governor, the number-one politician in the state of Alabama---just as Mr. Jindal is the number-one politician in the state of Louisiana.
It's the same principle. The thought that a non-believing politician in my state is going to show favoritism to other non-believers never crossed my mind. This is life. It's what we have to deal with.
wayne
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Jan, 2011 08:41 pm
@ehBeth,
I'll never tell you if I do any praying for you Smile
I'm not what might be called religious, but any and all praying I do is done in my bed chamber, where no one else can see or hear.
The results are inconclusive Smile
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  3  
Reply Thu 20 Jan, 2011 08:42 pm
@Arella Mae,
Suppose I said, "Arella, gues what? You're a whore". Of course, you and your friends would get offended, so the next day I would offer the following for an "apology" : "I'm sorry if I offended Arella by pointing out she's a whore" Would that satisfy you? I think it shouldn't. By the same token, I don't think Bentley's "apology" should satisfy anyone who felt offended in the first place.
wayne
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Jan, 2011 08:43 pm
@Arella Mae,
Quote:
I am suppose to validate the feelings of people I don't even know?


Yes
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Jan, 2011 08:44 pm
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:

Suppose I said, "Arella, gues what? You're a whore". Of course, you and your friends would get offended, so the next day I would offer the following for an "apology" : "I'm sorry if I offended Arella by pointing out she's a whore" Would that satisfy you? I think it shouldn't. By the same token, I don't think Bentley's "apology" should satisfy anyone who felt offended in the first place.
Why would I be offended? You would be lying because I am not a whore.
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Jan, 2011 08:44 pm
@Arella Mae,
Arella Mae wrote:
same principle. The thought that a non-believing politician in my state is going to show favoritism to other non-believers never crossed my mind. This is life. It's what we have to deal with. [/color]

The case is not symmetrical. How many non-believing politicians showing favoritism to other non-believers do you have to deal with in Louisiana?
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Jan, 2011 08:48 pm
@wayne,
I should validate the feelings of everyone in the world I do not know? I don't intentionally offend people. I have in the past and I've felt horrible and have apologized. But, I am not responsible for your emotional well being and you are not responsible for mine. I don't spend my life trying to read people's minds about if one, two, or a dozen are going to be offended. I don't go out and intentionally hurt people and I don't think this Governor intentionally did it either. Someone is always going to be offended and somone is always not going to be offended. You cannot please everyone.
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Jan, 2011 08:48 pm
@Thomas,
I told you that thought has never crossed my mind. We have had a few crooks for Governors here. Trust me, it wasn't the Christians they showed favoritism to. But I never even thought about it that way.
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Jan, 2011 08:49 pm
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:

You KNOW Catholics aren't Christians.

or at least that's what my hairdresser told me

They sure push the boundaries of monotheism with all their patron-saint worship.
0 Replies
 
 

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