Non-Christian - not my brother

@Krumple,

thank you for having the good sense to drag this over here...

@Rockhead,

"thank you for having the good sense to drag this over here... "

I didn't drag this over here...

but you don't think it is silly at all that she is incapable of following it here? So what difference does it make if it is here or over there? Just because its not in her thread it somehow becomes something else? This is also a delusion that is internet silliness at it's finest.

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@Krumple,

that gives her a choice.

you seem kinda dense.

are you a philosopher, by chance?

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@Krumple,

You seriously need to learn how to use the quote function. I am at work and don't have the time to try to figure out my posts from yours right now.

It doesn't matter anyway, you have already decided "she" is delusional and you might as well have said I or any other believer is delusional. Must be nice to be so superior.................................you can't even see your own hypocrisy.

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@Rockhead,

Rockhead wrote:

thank you for having the good sense to drag this over here...

In all fairness, he did not drag it here, I did. But, I am done. He has already decided who is delusional and who is not so there is nothing more to say.

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@Arella Mae,

Quote:

You seriously need to learn how to use the quote function.

I know how to use the quote function i just didn't feel the need to use it. Why should I conform to what you want? Are you not capable of picking out your statements and mine?

Quote:

Must be nice to be so superior.................................you can't even see your own hypocrisy.

Wouldn't you also be assuming that I were wrong here by making your statement? That you pointing this out could not be the case that I were right but instead I have a superiority complex and that is my problem? Funny. I guess only you could make such a validation?

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@Krumple,

Krumple wrote:

but you don't think it is silly at all that she is incapable of following it here? So what difference does it make if it is here or over there? Just because its not in her thread it somehow becomes something else?

given how busy her life is, there is a decent chance CL will never look at this thread. She asked for some support on her thread. I don't believe it harms any of the people who offered her some kindness to have done so.

On a day when she is not dealing with work, a difficult relationship, 2 small children, a friend in jail and a friend in critical condition she may have time to debate religion. This is just a time where she sought prayer for her friend. And sometimes friends do things for friends (and a number of people here at A2K consider CL a friend, some have met her and have a true personal feeling for her current distress) like offer a prayer or a kind thought when it is requested - whether or not they "believe".

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@Rockhead,

Quote:

that gives her a choice.

A choice to hear a response that did not favor her delusion? Why do we baby such a situation? Why do we coddle such points of views?

Quote:

you seem kinda dense.

Just like her following the conversation here must be a choice as if posting her request to begin with was somehow beyond her ability to make a choice and that her expecting everyone to support her delusion is not going to come face to face with reality. So yeah I must be as dense as you then.

Quote:

are you a philosopher, by chance?

There are no philosophers.

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@Krumple,

You are no one I care to discuss anything more with. Your attitude makes it plain to me you aren't very concerned about others.

You think you can deem others delusional? Who gave you that right? What makes you so superior to others? I will tell you. No one gave you that right and nothing makes you any better than anyone else. Some just like to act more like a jackass than others.

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@Krumple,

I'll take that as a feeble yes...

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@ehBeth,

Quote:

given how busy her life is, there is a decent chance CL will never look at this thread. She asked for some support on her thread. I don't believe it harms any of the people who offered her some kindness to have done so.

On a day when she is not dealing with work, a difficult relationship, 2 small children, a friend in jail and a friend in critical condition she may have time to debate religion. This is just a time where she sought prayer for her friend. And sometimes friends do things for friends (and a number of people here at A2K consider CL a friend, some have met her and have a true personal feeling for her current distress) like offer a prayer or a kind thought when it is requested - whether or not they "believe".

So you are saying to say anything else is completely off limits. You want to censor the truth because the truth is not helpful. But instead supporting her delusions is a better solution for her? Alright and it only points out that people really don't care about the truth, they only want what makes them feel good. If the truth hurts, toss it out and censor it because that is not helpful.

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@Arella Mae,

Quote:

You are no one I care to discuss anything more with. Your attitude makes it plain to me you aren't very concerned about others.

I do have a concern for others and that is why the truth is necessary to bring up because it provides a better coping mechanism than delusional lines of thinking. If I didn't care I wouldn't have bothered to say anything at all. You don't care about the truth and that is why you are willing to encourage the illusion.

Quote:

You think you can deem others delusional? Who gave you that right?

When it is unsupportable then it is delusional. I didn't make the choice it was reality that dictates who is being delusional. I am only pointing it out. Kill the messenger.

Quote:

will tell you. No one gave you that right and nothing makes you any better than anyone else. Some just like to act more like a jackass than others.

But you have the right to say that I don't have the right to make my statement? Alright.

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@Krumple,

Krumple wrote:

But instead supporting her delusions is a better solution for her?

sometimes that is indeed the case

sometimes it's useful to know that you've got toilet paper on your shoe. sometimes it's not meaningful at all.

and yes, I do think the whole atheism/religion debate is as about as important as toilet paper on a shoe

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@Krumple,

What I said was no one gave you the right to say who is delusional or not. You might think someone is but you nor I have the right to deem anyone delusional. If you will remember correctly, it was you who first made the statement about some Christians thinking they are superior. Seems like you think you are superior enough to make the decision they are delusional. That seems hypocritical to me, but that's me.

I really don't want to carry on with this discussion. You seem only interested in your point of view and to heck with how it effects anyone else. If you cannot understand how it was insensitive of you to say some of what you did to CL then I do feel pity for you. I hope you never find yourself in that position.

I don't have any hard feelings toward you krumple, but our discussing this further seems pretty fruitless to me.

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@ehBeth,

Quote:

sometimes that is indeed the case

sometimes it's useful to know that you've got toilet paper on your shoe. sometimes it's not meaningful at all.

and yes, I do think the whole atheism/religion debate is as about as important as toilet paper on a shoe

You personally might not find it important but that is your opinion. Should that be the opinion of everyone? You might not see the harm in it but her case is exactly the harm that I am pointing out. That she feels the need to find solace in someone praying for her condition. That is supporting bad lines of reasoning and it shouldn't be encouraged. It's time to rip the bandaid off humanity because pulling it off lightly doesn't do anything other than make them put it back on.

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@Arella Mae,

Quote:

What I said was no one gave you the right to say who is delusional or not. You might think someone is but you nor I have the right to deem anyone delusional. If you will remember correctly, it was you who first made the statement about some Christians thinking they are superior. Seems like you think you are superior enough to make the decision they are delusional. That seems hypocritical to me, but that's me.

The part that you are missing or purposely trying to ignore, not sure which is that prayer is unsupported. There has never been a case that supports that it actually does anything what so ever. Therefore it is not I who is deeming her delusional but the actual reality of it. I am only pointing it out. But you don't like to hear the truth so you see me as the bad guy.

Quote:

I really don't want to carry on with this discussion. You seem only interested in your point of view and to heck with how it effects anyone else. If you cannot understand how it was insensitive of you to say some of what you did to CL then I do feel pity for you. I hope you never find yourself in that position.

Interesting how you hope that I find myself in a similar situation when I never said anything even remotely close to that to her or her friends. In fact I said just the opposite and I sympathize with her experience. Yet you wish that I experience something similar? Thanks. I would never wish for that on you. The thing you are mad at is that I said prayer does not do anything. Calling her delusional is your cop out but really you are just mad that I gave you the truth about prayer. That is what this is really bugging you and has nothing to do with her being called delusional.

I apologize that the truth offends you.

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Yer all feckin' delusional . . . oh the bitter shame of it . . . but yer lucky, 'cause ye have me here to set ye straight . . .

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@Krumple,

I said I hope you NEVER find yourself in that position.

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Whenever I am asked to pray for someone, such as in case of Crazielady's
friend who was involved in a serious accident, I generally say yes, I
will pray. And I mean it. To many, that marks me as delusional. Maybe
I am. But my delusions and I are friends of long standing and quite
comfortable with each other. I don't intend to give them up.

What do we who pray expect of prayer? Certainly I don't expect that my
prayers will cause her friend's injuries to miraculously heal. That
would be wonderful, of course, but I really wouldn't count on it.
That doesn't mean that I consider my prayers ineffective. You've
heard the standard disclaimer, I'm sure, "God answers all prayers but
in his own way." I admit that's a cop-out. We have no idea what
"God's own way" would be, so no matter what happens, we say our
prayers are effective. Yet I do believe God hears prayers. And I do
get ticked off at him when mine aren't answered to my satisfaction.

So we pray and who knows what comes of it? Usually it at least does
no harm. Usually. In those cases where people withhold medical care
because they believe that prayer will cure, then there can certainly be
harm. That's not the kind of prayer I'm talking about. I'm talking
about a kind of prayer that can do good even if it be delusional.
Those who pray for and with each other offer a network of support, a
communion, a fellowship. There's a lot to be said for that.

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@Arella Mae,

Quote:

I said I hope you NEVER find yourself in that position.

But the context of your wording implies that I would change my position if I were in such a situation, which you would want me to experience so that I could sympathize with it, since you think I am being callus. So it is not in what you said but in what way you imply the statement. It's like a back handed compliment, sure you don't wish it upon me but you want me to see it from her point of view because then I would understand the error I was making.

But that's just it, I'm not making an error when pointing out reality. I know that might be hard for you to accept and it makes you feel better to deem me as an unreasonable person for making the statement. That I am the one with the problem since no one else would ever dare say such a thing. That I am the insensitive one because I would state the case when you find it unsuiting. It is these sorts of superstitions that hold us back and keeps us from being able to deal with reality in a positive way.

People like you would rather run and hide from the truth and cast out anyone who speaks the truth because it is not always appealing to hear. You don't want the truth, you want warm fuzzy lies.

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Non-Christian - not my brother

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