Who's evil: The gunman or politician?

@DrDick,

Quote:

"We must hang together or assuredly we shall hang separately." -- Benjamin Franklin (just in case you don't know he helped craft the consitution). So America was never intended to be every man for himself.

holly hell, you regurgitate one ten word quote from one American involved in the creation of the document and then claim this is proof of your idea of what kind of country the framers intended? What age are you...13 by chance??

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@hawkeye10,

I'm sorry, what is the appropriate amount of verbiage you would like to make a point? Apparently Benjamin Franklin used a ten word sentence to make his point. Was he 13 when he used it to make his point?

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@Warlock13,

Quote:

This is America. Your problems are not my problems. My problems are not your problems. No one should have the right to force public interest onto any individual. In America there are no public interests, or at least there aren't suppose to be. ....Remember if you are obligated to people you have not chosen to be, YOU ARE NOT FREE. I am still probably considered "young", but I still know that socialism and insurance is the path to slavery.

Just curious, Warlock, do you also object to your enforced contribution (through your taxes) toward the $US725.9 billion defence plan for funding US wars abroad in 2011? I imagine there are quite a few Americans who would prefer quite different uses of their taxes, closer to home ...
Or is your objection to expenditure on healthcare costs somehow different to tax payers' massive expenditure on wars abroad?

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@Warlock13,

Warlock13 wrote:

This is America. Your problems are not my problems. My problems are not your problems. No one should have the right to force public interest onto any individual. In America there are no public interests, or at least there aren't suppose to be. This is suppose to be Darwin's country( according to liberals). Every individual is responsible for themselves. Remember if you are obligated to people you have not chosen to be, YOU ARE NOT FREE. I am still probably considered "young", but I still know that socialism and insurance is the path to slavery. By the way, do some research into insurance, it is a form of socialism. Therfore it cannot( and will not) be the solution to capitialist healthcare.

We are not just a collection of individuals, but are supposed to be a nation... If we had considered ourselves only so many individuals we would still be suffering and supporting a royal family who serve no positive purpose.

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@msolga,

msolga wrote:

Warlock13 wrote:
I see tyranny everywhere. You said try to dictate? The government has dictated to you....You do have to listen to them or they arrest you.

Hmmm .... you don't think you're a wee bit paranoid, do you?

It's no accident. Looking at half your population as an obstacle to your evolutionary success tends to make one a little distrustful and ... figuratively speaking, of course ... trigger-happy.

Or perhaps all that paranoia is genetic?
(See Endy's new thread.)

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@OmSigDAVID,

I'm a Satanist o'boy. People can be important. I don't like god.

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@DrDick,

I'm sorry i still have insist a politician's vote is their own. The own it if you will. Politicians do not usually consult their supporters before a vote. Most laws passed aren't even known about, accept by the people who are affected by them. I will conceed that alot of polices in the US are the result of Agencies and not Congress.

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@Warlock13,

Quote:

The politician decided she had the right to force every American to buy something (health care bill). The gunman decided he had the right to take her life.

That sounds like the guy shot the lady for being too much of a libtard or demokkkrat, which is entirely false. He shot her for not being ENOUGH of a libtard and demoKKKrat and because his own brain had been rotted out by demoKKKrat/libtard propaganda.

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@Oylok,

you'll make an excellent slave. force is an option when all others have failed. It(force) founded this nation. Insurance is not capitialist in procedure. Its taking a group of peoples money and using it on other people. Insurance use to be a choice, which I have no problem with. As a young person, without insurance, (thankfully) I would argue to lower cost and increase productivity by eliminating insurance, so healthcare providers would have to compete for my business , and like every other business lower prices, create deals, provide financing, and fight to keep my patronage.

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@msolga,

i view both with same hate. Actually i find the US spending abroad more horrible. There is no difference for me in regards to the spending. Remember my objection is not the spending: it's forcing me to buy insurance or (anything else). The defense spending does not force me to do anything at this point--until the draft.

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@Fido,

i would argue that collective thinking is what we broke away from. Fuedalism is collective thinking. A republic is not collective thinking. It's an individual thinking within the boundaries of a group people who have agreed to think together.

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@gungasnake,

My point was simply they both did the same thing. Force their desires onto other people. Life taking is forcing your will on someone.

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@kendallscrnp8hrj,

Not wanting a government toilet doesn't mean I don't want a toilet. If your conscienceness forces you to look at something--its an entirely different situation than someone else forcing you to look at something.

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@DrDick,

You only need 2 people to flourish. And being in a collective does not mean parts of the collective can force other parts of the collective to do something. The is no Alpha male in a collective. Perhaps you meant society. Our American society eliminated the need for alpha males. since healthcare is aprox. 50/50 why do those who don't want have to leave? Maybe the ones who wanted should have left. My main issue with your point of view is that there is no opt out. In a free society there is suppose to be an opt out. The majority use to know that being a majority does not make you right, and therefore dissent was permitted. allowing people to remain in a society without being forced by the majority is critical to evaluation and evolution. People can exist together without doing the samething. to suggest that a society has to agree (and conform) is rather narrow-minded.

1 Reply

@Warlock13,

I need to clarify. The spending to me is the same, but I feel if the spending must occur I would rather it be spent on Americans.

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@Warlock13,

About your idea of paying for medicine without insurance...

Quote:

I would argue to lower cost and increase productivity by eliminating insurance, so healthcare providers would have to compete for my business , and like every other business lower prices, create deals, provide financing, and fight to keep my patronage.

And you'd be wrong, because there are real costs behind those medical bills.

Austrian buzzwords and cliches won't pay for a dumb, uninsured kid's $100,000 medical bill if he wrecks both legs in a car crash. Medicine costs money, because medical school costs money and so does state-of-the-art medical equipment. And don't think any banks are going to line up to loan that kid the money, either. It seems like the ethical thing for society to do that situation would be to just leave the mangled kid to rot to death, according to your philosophy, right Warlock13?

Every man for himself, and gangrene eat the limbs of the hindmost? Rolling Eyes

You seem completely blind to the fact that some people can't afford certain goods and services. Medicine is extremely expensive.

Well, society would not leave the kid to die. The good, compassionate doctors (I suppose you'd say they had a "slave mentality") would put his ungrateful ass back together again. Then the hospital would pass the costs on to patients who could afford to pay their medical bills, patients upon whom that kid would be imposing financially, and unfairly.

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@gungasnake,

gungasnake wrote:

libtard or demokkkrat

so the cuntservatives are of no blame in anything?

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@djjd62,

pure as driven snow.

and unaffected by climate change...

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@Warlock13,

You need to do some reading! But it wont do any good because you are parinoid!

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@Warlock13,

Your world view is so simplified it is of little value. Where do you get that there is no alpha male in a collective or that collectives cannot force others of the collective to do something? Where do you get that American society eliminated alpha males as there are examples of alpha males throughout our society (CEO's, atheletes, etc.).

Your main issue with my point of view is there is "no opt out". My main issue with your point of view is you fail to realize there has never been and will never be an "opt out" option as long as you are part of any society, whether in the United States or any other country. You don't have to leave, because it will do you no good. You would end up in another society that you would not be happy with. You think you would agree 100% with all the policies of any society? You are simply picking one single issue, health care, and failing to realize that as part of a society you will pay for many, many, many things that you may not necessarily agree with.

And dissent is permitted. You can protest, you can blog, you can write books, you can go on radio shows, you can vote, you can form a tea-party, you can run for office, you can participate in a forum to try and promote your views. There are tons of ways to dissent in this country. It makes it a great country. Try dissenting in N. Korea. But, dissenting by claiming a gunman is less evil than a politician simply destroys your credibility. It makes you come across as someone that should not be listened too.

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Who's evil: The gunman or politician?

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