Gun Violence in Europe

I realize the list Walter posted, from Fox News is incomplete--it says so itself, but that's still covering ten years, of presumably the more egregious examples,and I don't think the body count there is anywhere near, over those ten years, the body count our fellow citizens create in a single year, over here. I would still like to see some statistics.

Further, John Lott has been pretty thoroughly discredited in his statistics about the relation between gun deaths and concealed or open carry laws in the States. His results seem to be an artifact of a short period of time when he did his studies,and too few examples. When you look at the longer peiod of time since he compiled his statistics, and the more states that have passed such laws, the relationships he trumpets just don't seem to hold up.
http://islandia.law.yale.edu/ayres/Ayres_Donohue_article.pdf

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I found this statistic that Walter referenced particularly compelling:

Quote:

Between 1974 (Olean) and the end of 2002, there have been 75 school shootings worldwide, 62 in the USA, four in Canada and Germany each, five elsewhere (Roberts, Franc J.: School shootings, Frankfurt 2004 [German edition])

We have a bit less than 5% of the world's population, but had 400% as many school shootings as the rest of the world combined. I wonder if John Lott has ever responded to that fact.

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@CalamityJane,

I enjoy great debate, but I think you missed my point. violence is violence. Regardless of the weopon used. There is going to be violence with or without guns. Ever heard of the middle ages? Yes guns make harming more people easy. But so does carbon minoxide, smoke, and propane. Yes I know there are no statistics on those items being used as weopons. The point is, if a man wants to kill he will do it-with whatever he has avail. at the time. As a fun but serious question may ask you, if a plumber breaks your toilet(while working on it) do you blame him or the wrench?

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It's just not that easy to get someone into position to kill them with carbon monoxide. It's not hard to get someone into position to shoot them.

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@MontereyJack,

I've never done any research on that. though I imagine with CO you wouldn't need a "target" you could kill an entire group of people without their knowing it.

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I haven't found some recent statistics - this is between 1990 and 1995, but I think that today's statistic would be far worse...

http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/4999/picture1zcr.png

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@Warlock13,

There always will be violence, but without guns, a victim might have a chance to survive.

The American Journal of Public Health conducted a study that concluded "the United States has higher rates of firearm ownership than do other developed nations, and higher rates of homicide. Of the 233,251 people who were homicide victims in the United States between 1988 and 1997, 68% were killed with guns. Again, 68 % of homicides victims were killed with guns

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@MontereyJack,

MontereyJack wrote:

I found this statistic that Walter referenced particularly compelling:
Quote:

Between 1974 (Olean) and the end of 2002, there have been 75 school shootings worldwide, 62 in the USA, four in Canada and Germany each, five elsewhere (Roberts, Franc J.: School shootings, Frankfurt 2004 [German edition])

We have a bit less than 5% of the world's population, but had 400% as many school shootings
as the rest of the world combined. I wonder if John Lott has ever responded to that fact.

I wonder if Jack is including the world population with no schools.
Note that in all American school shootings,
the killer knew that he 'd be protected by gun control
from defensive gunfire from his victims.

The victims were made attractive targets
by DISARMING THEM, and leaving them helpless.

The killers LOVED being like wolves
in henhouses, thanks to the gun controllers.

That 's Y thay shot up schools,
not police stations.

David

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@CalamityJane,

I don't doubt those numbers. but is that a testament to the morals of Americans living in a free society or their access to weopons. In other words, are we a nation of violent people, who at this point choose guns over other weopons? would the absence of guns make us more docile? Statistics are limited. For reference a crossbow or bow and arrow is far more accurate and deadly than a gun. not as easy to conceal, but with added distance one would not need to conceal.

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@CalamityJane,

CalamityJane wrote:

There always will be violence, but without guns, a victim might have a chance to survive.

The American Journal of Public Health conducted a study that concluded "the United States has higher rates of firearm ownership than do other developed nations, and higher rates of homicide. Of the 233,251 people who were homicide victims in the United States between 1988 and 1997, 68% were killed with guns. Again, 68 % of homicides victims were killed with guns

The victims shoud have been better armed and defensively trained in school,
at early ages.

David

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@Warlock13,

Warlock13 wrote:

I've never done any research on that. though I imagine with CO
you wouldn't need a "target" you could kill an entire group of people without their knowing it.

It woud be quieter than blowing them up with fertilizer.
Nitrogen woud work well too;
about 80% of the atmosphere is already nitrogen.

David

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@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

I wonder if Jack is including the world population with no schools.

Ha ha ha, Yeah Dave, why haven't the statisticians used data from all the demographics in Antarctica. I'm sure it would prove your point... ha ha ha ha

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@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

H2O MAN wrote:
The US does not need any additional gun control.
The current gun laws should be streamlined and then made the same across the land.
I will agree with that, with the provision that
"The current gun laws" be streamlined to the same extent
as the newspaper laws, the book laws and the religious belief laws,
because the jurisdiction is equally extant.

David

Deal!

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@Ceili,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

I wonder if Jack is including the world population with no schools.

Ceili wrote:

Ha ha ha, Yeah Dave, why haven't the statisticians used data from all the demographics in Antarctica. I'm sure it would prove your point... ha ha ha ha

or Unclearctica

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