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Would You Have Mercy If You Were the Judge?

 
 
Reply Fri 14 Jan, 2011 09:24 am
Part of me says this guy should stay in prison for what he's done and there's part of me that sees a sick, little old man who has numbered years. I don't know what I'd do. What about you? Would you sentence him to prison or home with his family?

Quote:
NY judge to sentence geriatric gangster, 93

http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/916/mobsterc.jpg

AP – FILE - In this June 15, 2010 file photo, John 'Sonny' Franzese, left, arrives at federal court in the … .

By TOM HAYS, Associated Press Tom Hays, Associated Press – 1 hr 37 mins ago

NEW YORK – Convicted mob boss John "Sonny" Franzese is so old, he knew Frank Sinatra in his heyday. He's so old, his recent extortion trial became nap time — even when his turncoat son took the witness stand against him.

Franzese also is so old that, if federal prosecutors have their way, he's almost certain to die behind bars.

To the dismay of supporters who insist the frail 93-year-old is a decrepit shadow of his former self, the government has asked a judge in federal court in Brooklyn to sentence him Friday to 12 years or more in prison.

The reputed underboss of the Colombo organized crime family remains a remorseless mobster who deserves no mercy, "having denied so many of his victims the opportunity to live out their lives safely and securely with their families," prosecutors wrote in a sentencing memo.

The defense says Franzese, who suffers from an array of ailments, should be allowed to "live out the remaining few years or months with his family."

Franzese's lawyer has sought to portray the nonagenarian as a harmless relic from "the age of Eisenhower and Lyndon Johnson and maybe the age of George Washington."

According to Mafia lore, he was a regular at the Copacabana nightclub, where he hobnobbed with Sinatra and Sammy Davis Jr., and also once had a stake in the classic porn film "Deep Throat."

But the government says Franzese's true legacy is something more akin to "Goodfellas."

Franzese's life of crime began in 1938, while he was still a teenager, with an assault arrest. Prosecutors say he was kicked out of the Army four years later after displaying "homicidal tendencies."

In 1947, court papers say, he raped a waitress in a garage. In 1966, he beat a murder charge accusing him of killing a rival and dumping the body — cement blocks chained to the feet — into a bay.

Franzese was convicted in 1967 in a bank robbery, sent to prison and paroled in the late 1970s. Though never convicted of another crime, authorities say he rose to second in command of the Colombos, one of New York's five Italian crime families.

Prosecutors say one reason Franzese dodged arrest in other murders is that he became good at making bodies disappear. Investigators caught him on tape in 2006 describing his favorite recipe for that: Dismember victim in kiddie pool. Cook body parts in microwave. Stuff parts in garbage disposal. Be patient.

"Today, you can't have a body no more," the latest court papers quote him saying. "It's better to take that half an hour, an hour, to get rid of the body than it is just to leave the body in the street."

The FBI arrested Franzese in a mob takedown in 2008 on charges he shook down Manhattan strip clubs and a Long Island pizzeria.

At trial last summer, prosecutors used John Franzese Jr., a former Colombo associate-turned-paid informant, to help convince jurors that his father's frail appearance was deceiving. The defendant, who used a wheelchair in court, briefly dozed off when his son began testifying.

"I'm not talking about my father as a man," Franzese Jr. testified. "I'm talking about the life he chose. ... This life absorbs you. You only see one way."

Junior testified that he tried to follow in the footsteps of his father, who used him to pass messages to other mobsters. But after developing a crack cocaine addiction, he wanted "to make up for what I had done in my life" by becoming a government cooperator.

A jury convicted the elder Franzese in July after five days of deliberations. A judge revoked his bail and threw him in jail.

In letters to the judge since then, Franzese's doctors catalogued what lawyers call his "serious maladies," including gout, high blood pressure and kidney disease. His family also wrote to say they saw a domesticated don while he was out on bail awaiting trial at his daughter's home.

"The Sonny Franzese I know as my grandfather is kind considerate, warm, and funny," wrote one granddaughter. "When he is around family he just loves to tell jokes, watch baseball on television, nap, and tell stories about the past."
 
InfraBlue
 
  4  
Reply Fri 14 Jan, 2011 11:19 am
@Arella Mae,
Quote:
Part of me says this guy should stay in prison for what he's done and there's part of me that sees a sick, little old man who has numbered years.

How does what you see in the second place negate what you say in the first?
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Jan, 2011 11:40 am
@InfraBlue,
I think everyone should pay for their crimes. It is hard for me to see a 93 year old man as a menace to society, which he obviously has been. I guess you could say compassion is what negates it.
chai2
 
  4  
Reply Fri 14 Jan, 2011 12:07 pm
@Arella Mae,
Arella Mae wrote:

It is hard for me to see a 93 year old man as a menace to society, which he obviously has been.


How many crimes has this man ordered, and had carried out by others over the years?

What is to keep him from ordering more? (even from prison, unfortunately)

He should be shown the same amount of mercy he showed to the person who he sent to swim with the fishes.
joefromchicago
 
  2  
Reply Fri 14 Jan, 2011 12:14 pm
@Arella Mae,
Quote:
"The Sonny Franzese I know as my grandfather is kind considerate, warm, and funny," wrote one granddaughter. "When he is around family he just loves to tell jokes, watch baseball on television, nap, and tell stories about the past."

Ya' just gotta' remember to keep the little ones outta' the kiddie pool -- ya' know what I'm sayin'?
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Jan, 2011 12:14 pm
@chai2,
I certainly cannot argue with your logic.
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Jan, 2011 12:15 pm
@chai2,
Ditto - and just ask the victims and the family member of the victims what their thoughts are? Shouldn't we saw the victims a little mercy?
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Jan, 2011 12:16 pm
@joefromchicago,
joefromchicago wrote:

Quote:
"The Sonny Franzese I know as my grandfather is kind considerate, warm, and funny," wrote one granddaughter. "When he is around family he just loves to tell jokes, watch baseball on television, nap, and tell stories about the past."

Ya' just gotta' remember to keep the little ones outta' the kiddie pool -- ya' know what I'm sayin'?
I hear ya. It's kind of like with the Iceman, Richard Kuklinski. His family knew him to be a good father, loved his kids, etc. They had no clue he was a mafia hit man and a flat out evil person (he admits that). It's hard to reconcile the both and I think that's the trouble I'm having with Sonny Franzese.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Jan, 2011 12:17 pm
@Linkat,
Linkat wrote:

Ditto - and just ask the victims and the family member of the victims what their thoughts are? Shouldn't we saw the victims a little mercy?
Victims do deserve justice. You are definitely right about that.
Ceili
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Jan, 2011 12:23 pm
@Arella Mae,
I think if you live a life of crime, you've already made your peace with the consequences. He gambled with crime and now he has to pay. The fact that this guy is old doesn't make up for the fact the his victims didn't get the chance.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  2  
Reply Fri 14 Jan, 2011 01:19 pm
@Arella Mae,
Quote:
It is hard for me to see a 93 year old man as a menace to society, which he obviously has been.

He's not being sentenced for what he might do. He's being sentenced for what he has done.
0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Jan, 2011 01:29 pm
@joefromchicago,
joefromchicago wrote:

Quote:
"The Sonny Franzese I know as my grandfather is kind considerate, warm, and funny," wrote one granddaughter. "When he is around family he just loves to tell jokes, watch baseball on television, nap, and tell stories about the past."

Ya' just gotta' remember to keep the little ones outta' the kiddie pool -- ya' know what I'm sayin'?


I'll tell ya, he looks damn good for 93.

Must be the gabagool.

0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  0  
Reply Fri 14 Jan, 2011 01:42 pm
What did Shakespeare have to say about the "quality of mercy"?

I say let the man rest in peace, with an ankle monitor, at home with his family.
MontereyJack
 
  2  
Reply Fri 14 Jan, 2011 01:46 pm
So at 89 he was recommending cooking his enemies in the microwave after he'd killed them--and of course after dismembering them so they'd fit in the microwave. At 89. Do you really think four years have changed him any? Prison is the appropriate place for him to die.
0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  0  
Reply Fri 14 Jan, 2011 01:50 pm
Quote:
The Quality of Mercy

The quality of mercy is not strained.
It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven
Upon the place beneath. It is twice blest:
It blesseth him that gives and him that takes.
Tis mightiest in the mightiest; it becomes
The throned monarch better than his crown.
His scepter shows the force of temporal power,
The attribute to awe and majesty,
Wherein doth sit the dread and fear of kings.
But mercy is above this sceptered sway;
It is enthroned in the hearts of kings;
It is an attribute of God himself;
And earthly power doth then show like God's
When mercy seasons justice.
William Shakespeare
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Jan, 2011 01:59 pm
@Miller,
Miller wrote:

What did Shakespeare have to say about the "quality of mercy"?

I say let the man rest in peace, with an ankle monitor, at home with his family.


Why should he get to be at home with his family, when he made it forever impossible for others to do so?

I wonder how many people who speak of mercy are thinking about little kindnesses to be done for others less fortunate, and not speaking of people who raped, brutalized, tortured and murdered others?

The mercy should have begun with his actions towards others.

As you sow, so shall you reap.

In other words, ain't karma a bitch.
0 Replies
 
Ceili
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Jan, 2011 02:00 pm
No one is advocating torture. Just jail, it's where he belongs. What's unmerciful about doing time for the crimes you have committed?
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Jan, 2011 02:06 pm
@Ceili,
Yep - putting him in jail is much more merciful than what he has done to others. Showing mercy is kinda like forgiving some one. Just because you may forgive some one for their actions, does not mean that they should go unpunished. Same as mercy. We are showing him mercy - we are putting him in jail for the rest of his life - we are not killing or physically harming him in anyone. Just providing justice especially for the victims.
Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Jan, 2011 02:07 pm
@Linkat,
nope.

you do the crime, do the time
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3t13jKcMjE&feature=related
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Jan, 2011 02:46 pm
@Arella Mae,
They are showing mercy. 12 years instead of life.
 

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