California again?

@joefromchicago,

And only you joefromchicago will take every opportunity, no matter how narrow, to toss personal insults at the folks with whom you disagree.

(Well, you and some others, but you're right there in the vanguard.)

At it's center, this is a discussion about personal freedom and the right and duty of the collective to infringe upon that freedom for its perceived greater good.

Without obtaining funding from the individual members of the collective (willing or otherwise) the power to enforce any measure that infringes upon their personal freedom is virtually non-existent.

The larger the coffers of the Government the greater is its ability to infringe upon personal freedom.

We have come to a time in our history when excessive and inequitable taxation has become so much a mainstay that very little to any real thought is given to the cost of imposing collective decisions. Thus, there is no reason to prioritize, to weigh cost against reward, or base these decisions on much more than feelings.

1 Reply

@Finn dAbuzz,

I wouldn't say that joefromchicago completely abstains, but he's one of the least given to personal insults. I sometimes wish we had more room for agreement.

3 Replies

@joefromchicago,

Without tax money California couldn't interfere in hygiene of its citizens. That's what circumcision involves, hygiene. The Jews were a desert people. Pork meat rots fast, you get no refrigeration in the desert so they don't eat it either.

I'd say Californians wash with soap and water more often than the Africans, if it's a question of preventing infection circumcision may be useful for Africans but has no place elsewhere. You want to be consistent advocate for a ban on bacon.

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@roger,

I'm sure he'll appreciate your kind words roger, but my experience doesn't align with yours.

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@dlowan,

the second that you babbled that it's "mutilation" adn "assault" and "violence" you'd begun the over-reacting. Ask any real and honest man that was circumcised as a baby and they can't even recall having the circumcision performed. It's a snip, I have no memory of it and can't even say when it was done or by whom (we lived upstairs from a Rabbi and Synagogue, it may have been ritual) it certainly hasn't destroyed me. I'm much bothered more by memories of a distant "cabin" in an unrecalled place, laying sick in a bed. I've never met another man that had a memory of being circumcised in their first days.

2 Replies

@Sturgis,

Sturgis wrote:

the second that you babbled that it's "mutilation" adn "assault" and "violence" you'd begun the over-reacting. Ask any real and honest man that was circumcised as a baby and they can't even recall having the circumcision performed. It's a snip, I have no memory of it and can't even say when it was done or by whom (we lived upstairs from a Rabbi and Synagogue, it may have been ritual) it certainly hasn't destroyed me. I'm much bothered more by memories of a distant "cabin" in an unrecalled place, laying sick in a bed. I've never met another man that had a memory of being circumcised in their first days.

AGREED!

I 'm sure glad that it happened in MY case.

David

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@roger,

roger wrote:

I wouldn't say that joefromchicago completely abstains, but he's one of the least given to personal insults. I sometimes wish we had more room for agreement.

Well, we agree on that at least.

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@roger,

well the problem we all have with joefromchicago is his obvious lack of understanding of even the simplest legal issues as well as his wishy-washy need to agree with everyone. Perhaps if he had an academic background in some field other than 17th century french literature he could contribute a more coherent grasp of 21 century socio-political difficulties.

1 Reply

Dys wrote:

Perhaps if he had an academic background in some field other than 17th century french literature

I think his academic background in French literature was the causation of his lack of coherence in his grasp of the 21th century socio-political difficulties.. Twisted Evil

1 Reply

@dyslexia,

dyslexia wrote:

well the problem we all have with joefromchicago is his obvious lack of understanding of even the simplest legal issues as well as his wishy-washy need to agree with everyone.

I agree.

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@Francis,

Francis mon petit Cartesian, your penchant for rationalism has led you down the path of passions of the velveeta soul. Perhaps an early supper of bangers and mash would balance your colon.

1 Reply

@dyslexia,

Dys wrote:

your penchant for rationalism has led you down the path of passions

Geez, Dys, can you not think of anything more oxymoronic than that?

Rationalism along with passion? Now that's news!

Only a friend like you would show so much concern for the equilibrium of my intestine, thanks Dys!

1 Reply

@Francis,

Quote:

Geez, Dys, can you not think of anything more oxymoronic than that?

well, I tried.

1 Reply

@dyslexia,

Yeah, but Francis left out the "...passions of the velveeta soul." part. In Gallic fashion he parses your words and phrases very selectively, and to serve his purpose.

It was a good try. You just forgot that Francis is a committed nitpicker.

1 Reply

@georgeob1,

As a committed nitpicker, I firmly deny having left out passions..

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@Mame,

A commonly accepted agreement about an argument supporting some kind of viewpoint that one happens to possess is that it contain more than:

Quote:

I don't think it's a big deal, that's my argument.

Usually, some supporting facts or somesuch are used.

Do have a go.

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@joefromchicago,

joefromchicago wrote:

dlowan wrote:

If you defend this you ought to defend

a. Cutting off girls' clitorises and sewing up their labia majora.

b, Cutting off the tip of a baby's little finger on religious grounds.

If you can't appreciate the distinction between infant male circumcision and "cutting off girls' clitorises and sewing up their labia majora," then you probably should find some other discussion in which to participate. I think there's some action going on in the cat threads.

And you should learn to read before projecting onto me some nonsensical argument I never made.

Hint: Reading my threads about fighting female genital mutilation might help.

Good grief...you I expect some rationality from. What IS it about this topic that makes people so emotional and hinders their reading comprehension?

1 Reply

@Sturgis,

Sturgis wrote:

the second that you babbled that it's "mutilation" adn "assault" and "violence" you'd begun the over-reacting. Ask any real and honest man that was circumcised as a baby and they can't even recall having the circumcision performed. It's a snip, I have no memory of it and can't even say when it was done or by whom (we lived upstairs from a Rabbi and Synagogue, it may have been ritual) it certainly hasn't destroyed me. I'm much bothered more by memories of a distant "cabin" in an unrecalled place, laying sick in a bed. I've never met another man that had a memory of being circumcised in their first days.

No "real and honest" men can't recall stuff from infancy.

Neither can unreal and dishonest ones.

Your point would be?

1 Reply

@Linkat,

Linkat wrote:

Next thing you know - you aren't going be allowed to cut a child's nails.

Crap,

Argument for this ridiculous statement?

Please?

0 Replies

@dyslexia,

Sounds like a post hoc rationalisation for a knee-jerk position.

I amn't saying you are necessarily wrong, but I do think you have over-reacted here and I STILL haven't seen anything like a reasonable discussion or argument from anyone here.

Including you.

I think you can do better. I KNOW you can do better. Heck, I could make a better argument against me than any of you wallies have. I have HEARD you make a better argument about this.

I am gone for 2 weeks, so please feel free to dis me and enjoy yourselves condemning me.

Have fun.

Heck, I didn't give much of a tuppenny **** about this (except the unreason about knee-jerkily condemning California's desire to DISCUSS the goddamn issue) but the "arguments" I have seen here have been so weak that I may become an anti-infant male circumcision crusader.

And it will be all of your faults.

0 Replies

California again?

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