11
   

The Dietary Control Zealots Strike Again

 
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2010 04:36 am
@High Seas,
PPS anyone wants to get very technical, Thomas and I (and others) have posted links on this thread:
http://able2know.org/topic/132430-8#post-4339716
0 Replies
 
PUNKEY
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2010 06:46 am
Read again:

The San Francisco Board of Supervisors gave preliminary approval Tuesday to banning toy giveaways in Happy Meals and similar fast-food offerings aimed at kids unless they have reduced sodium, fat and sugar content and include fruit and vegetables.

That is so frightening to me - that the government would come into my business and limit how I sell my product. Not to mention the enforcement - who's going to do that?


0 Replies
 
Mame
 
  0  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2010 08:13 am
@High Seas,
High Seas wrote:

The "food pyramid" is why we're so fat - we never evolved to eat grains, the agricultural revolution being only a few thousand years old. It's also why our animals have to be fed gigantic amounts of antibiotics; they didn't evolve to eat grains either; not to mention they're are being tortured in "factory farms" - sentient beings monstrously treated like machinery. It's also why we pollute our waters with runoff containing fertilizers (necessary in monoculture, unnecessary with crop rotation), pesticides, antibiotics, sewage, and on and on. All this before allowing for distortions subsidies cause to world trade.


Disagree. http://www.waoy.org/26.html and other such links:

TEN PHYSICAL DIFFERENCES BETWEEN CARNIVORES (MEAT EATERS) AND HERBIVORES (PLANT EATERS).
IS THE HUMAN BODY DESIGNED TO EAT ANIMAL PRODUCTS?


1.A carnivore's teeth are long, sharp and pointed. These are tools that are useful for the task of piercing into flesh. Omnivore's (meat and plant eaters) teeth are similar to that of carnivores. Man's, as well as other herbivore's teeth are not pointed, but flat edged. These are useful tools for biting, crushing and grinding.

2.A carnivore's jaws move up and down with minimal sideways motion. The jaw motion of an omnivore is similar. These are tools that are useful for the tasks of shearing, ripping and tearing flesh and swallowing it whole. Omnivores swallow their food whole and/or with simple crushing. Man's, as well as other herbivore's jaws cannot shear, but have good side to side and back to front motion. These are tools that are useful for extensive chewing, crushing and grinding of grains and other high fiber foods. Animal flesh cannot be crushed, ground and chewed with the tools Yahweh gave man without some degenerating process such as cooking or frying.

3.A carnivore or omnivore's saliva does not contain digestive enzymes. Man's, as well as other herbivore's saliva is alkaline, containing carbohydrate digestive enzymes.

4.A carnivore's stomach secretes powerful digestive enzymes with about 10 times the amount of hydrochloric acid than a human or herbivore. The pH is less than or equal to "1" with food in the stomach, for a carnivore or omnivore. For humans or other herbivores, the pH ranges from 4 to 5 with food in the stomach. Hence, man must prepare his meats with laborious cooking or frying methods. E. Coli bacteria, salmonella, campylobacter, trichina worms [parasites] or other pathogens would not survive in the stomach of a lion.

5.A carnivore's or omnivore's small intestine is three to six times the length of its trunk. This is a tool designed for rapid elimination of food that rots quickly. Man's, as well as other herbivore's small intestines are 10 to 12 times the length of their body, and winds itself back and forth in random directions. This is a tool designed for keeping food in it for long enough periods of time so that all the valuable nutrients and minerals can be extracted from it before it enters the large intestine.

6.A carnivore's or omnivore's large intestine is relatively short and simple, like a pipe. This passage is also relatively smooth and runs fairly straight so that fatty wastes high in cholesterol can easily slide out before they start to putrefy. Man's, as well as other herbivore's large intestines, or colons, are puckered and pouched, an apparatus that runs in three directions (ascending, traversing and descending), designed to hold wastes that originally were foods high in water content. This is so that the fluids can be extracted from these wastes, now that all the useful nutrients and minerals have been extracted and the long journey through the small intestine is over. Substances high in fat and cholesterol that have been putrefying for hours during their long stay in the small intestine tend to get stuck in the pockets that line the large intestine.
7.Animal flesh, composed of the most highly complex type of protein that exists, requires vast amounts of uric acid to process. Uric acid is released into the system in amounts necessary to break proteins down into amino acids. Uric acid is a toxic substance responsible for the aging process and must be flushed out and dealt with. That is one of the jobs of the liver. In relative terms, a carnivore's liver is a tool designed with the capacity to eliminate ten times as much uric acid as the liver of man or other plant eater.

8.A predator has a gait, large paws and claws, which enable him to hunt, chase and trap his prey. These are tools meant to kill. Man's gait, as well as other herbivore's is designed only for mobility. Examine your hand, fingers and fingernails. Is this an apparatus properly designed for catching, trapping, killing and ripping apart cattle, hogs, chicken and fish? How does this work for picking fruit from trees or harvesting vegetables? The foods your hands were meant to gather are typically, high in water content, high also in fiber to sweep the wastes out of those intestines, and collectively contain every vitamin and mineral necessary to sustain human life.

9.A carnivore's frame of mind is totally geared for hunting and killing. Man's frame of mind is compassionate, friendly and reveres life. When the lion spots another furry animal, something might instinctively click in his head that tells him to hurry up and get dinner. When man spots a furry animal, rather than show his children how to take its life and eat it, a more likely instinct is to pull over, get the camera out and take a picture. Put a young baby chick and an apple in a crib with a six-month-old baby. What will he instinctively attempt to eat and play with?

10. Man is not a natural hunter. Every predator, in order to go hunting, MUST be hungry. Man cannot go hunting if he IS hungry. He must have a meal first. Hunger must precede a predator to go hunting. Hunger must follow man's desire to go hunting, it cannot precede it.

Don't know that I agree with No. 10, but the others make sense.

And another link: http://www.vegsource.com/news/2009/11/the-comparative-anatomy-of-eating.html



High Seas
 
  2  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2010 08:17 am
@Mame,
You missed the point completely. USDA subsidies don't go to "plants" generally, only to "man-made" grain varieties; your post is about naturally occuring plants. You probably also want to watch the link to the biochemistry professor at University of California at S.F., explaining what's at issue - not plants!
0 Replies
 
failures art
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2010 09:37 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
This is so ******* trivial hawkeye. Even for you.

i dont consider government criminalizing dietary choices a trivial matter.
hawkeye10 wrote:

Unless you eat the toy, it's not limiting any dietary choices. Restaurants can still sell super unhealthy food. Read again.

It's a dumb mandate, but honestly your bellyaching is by far inferior.

hawkeye10 wrote:

I consider it a manifestation of a rouge government that attacks the citizens, and which needs to be brought to heal.

Of course you do. You're hawkeye.

A
R
T
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2010 09:59 am
@High Seas,
The source was easy to find via Google:

http://www.pcrm.org/magazine/gm07autumn/health_pork.html

Quote:
Health vs. Pork: Congress Debates the Farm Bill

The Farm Bill, a massive piece of federal legislation making its way through Congress, governs what children are fed in schools and what food assistance programs can distribute to recipients. The bill provides billions of dollars in subsidies, much of which goes to huge agribusinesses producing feed crops, such as corn and soy, which are then fed to animals. By funding these crops, the government supports the production of meat and dairy products—the same products that contribute to our growing rates of obesity and chronic disease. Fruit and vegetable farmers, on the other hand, receive less than 1 percent of government subsidies.

The government also purchases surplus foods like cheese, milk, pork, and beef for distribution to food assistance programs—including school lunches. The government is not required to purchase nutritious foods.
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2010 10:03 am
@Mame,
It's not that our food choices are so unhealthy, it's that we eat too much of it and don't get enough exercise.

Evolutionarily, food surpluses have been very rare, so our bodies are programmed such that eating to satiety ends up with us gaining weight.
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2010 10:06 am
@Mame,
Mame wrote:
When man spots a furry animal, rather than show his children how to take its life and eat it, a more likely instinct is to pull over, get the camera out and take a picture.

lol. Only when the photographer has had a meal in the last 24 hours.

Mame wrote:
10. Man is not a natural hunter. Every predator, in order to go hunting, MUST be hungry. Man cannot go hunting if he IS hungry. He must have a meal first. Hunger must precede a predator to go hunting. Hunger must follow man's desire to go hunting, it cannot precede it.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persistence_hunting

Quote:
Persistence hunting is a hunting technique in which hunters use a combination of running and tracking to pursue prey to exhaustion. Today, it is very rare and seen only in a few groups such as Kalahari bushmen and the Tarahumara or Raramuri people of Northern Mexico. Persistence hunting requires endurance running – running many miles for extended periods of time. Among primates, endurance running is only seen in humans, and persistence hunting is thought to have been one of the earliest forms of human hunting, having evolved 2 million years ago.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2010 10:09 am
@DrewDad,
DrewDad wrote:

It's not that our food choices are so unhealthy, it's that we eat too much of it and don't get enough exercise.

Evolutionarily, food surpluses have been very rare, so our bodies are programmed such that eating to satiety ends up with us gaining weight.


This is a great point. I just had a physical a few days ago and was pronounced in top shape - the doc told me not to come back for a few years. My diet isn't particularly great, either - but we don't own a car, and I ride my bicycle or walk everywhere I go, in addition to working out a couple of days a week.

I always laugh when I see my friends who don't really exercise counting calories or complaining about the levels of fat in foods.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2010 10:12 am
@Mame,
Most of those 'differences' are pure bullshit, especially 9 and 10.

Especially 9. It's total bullshit. When I see something furry, my first thought- every single time - is, 'would that taste good?'

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
failures art
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2010 10:13 am
@failures art,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
This is so ******* trivial hawkeye. Even for you.

i dont consider government criminalizing dietary choices a trivial matter.

Unless you eat the toy, it's not limiting any dietary choices. Restaurants can still sell super unhealthy food. Read again.

It's a dumb mandate, but honestly your bellyaching is by far inferior.

hawkeye10 wrote:

I consider it a manifestation of a rouge government that attacks the citizens, and which needs to be brought to heal.

Of course you do. You're hawkeye.

A
Reposted with proper quote boxes
T
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2010 10:14 am
So Mame, you've got a page from the "Biblical Health, Nutrition and Healing" portion of the WInnipeg Assemblyof Yahweh website, and a link for a page at Vegsource-dot-com, "Your source for all things vegetarian." Hello . . . Hello . . . ? Anybody to home?
0 Replies
 
failures art
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2010 10:16 am
Must we dive into the vegetarian discussion in this thread? I think I've become the de facto veg around here, and I can't decide what is more exhausting: Reading about people opinion of vegetarianism or taking the time to point out all the assumptions made.

Can we table this one for another thread...

A
R
T
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2010 10:19 am
@failures art,
******* dietary conversation control zealot

Laughing

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2010 10:20 am
Talk to Mame. She posted some anti-carnivorous bullshit from some dubious sites, and i pointed that out. If you want to whine about how persecutied you feel, why don't you start a separate thread?
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2010 11:28 am
@DrewDad,
My post concerned the primary source of this particular taxpayer-funded folly, the USDA. Subsidies never go to natural plants - Mame's point.

Secondary and tertiary uses of the subsidized corn and related grain crops are several transactions removed from the USDA's largesse. So are downstream pollution (like the dead zone in the Gulf of Mexico) obesity and disease damages. It's a classic case of the "tragedy of the commons". Tragedy for us and for those pitiful animals. And then they peddle their inane "Food Pyramid" - that entire bureaucracy should be abolished forthwith.
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2010 12:10 pm
@High Seas,
Why don't you get back to me on how much subsidized corn is eaten by cattle, and how much subsidized corn is eaten by humans?

Same with the soybeans, m'kay?

Once again, you're talking out of your ass just for the sake of being able to argue with someone, not because you know wtf you're talking about.
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2010 12:19 pm
@DrewDad,
Polite discourse being evidently waaaay beyond the synaptic capabilities of your malformed brain, GET SOMEONE TO READ this ALOUD TO YOU!!
You post a graph, unsourced. You subsequently post the source of said graph - turns out to be a chat site about a discussion of a congressional hearing about the USDA subsidies with NO NUMBERS EVER AT ANY OF YOUR IDIOTICALLY LINKED NODES. The only numbers on this idiotic thread so far are those on the link I posted on the previous page - and all the biochemistry info is on the UC link. GOT THAT, DIMWITTIE??
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2010 12:25 pm
@High Seas,
Chat site? Interesting take... and completely divorced from reality. Not unusual, coming from you.
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Nov, 2010 12:35 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

Talk to Mame. She posted some anti-carnivorous bullshit from some dubious sites, and i pointed that out....

Mame is not to blame - she probably got confused by the massive quantities of illustrated drivel posted by creepy "sugar-daddy". I read her long quote from whatever site she got it and I have a question: don't natural herbivores has several stomachs? Cows do. Aren't they designed to eat only grass?
 

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