Muslim Garb

@Gypsydancer,

welcome to A2K

@djjd62,

oops.

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@Gypsydancer,

A pre-eminently sensible response.

Welcome to the site . . . i look forward to using a flimsy excuse to vilify and ridicule you.

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@Setanta,

Thank you for the warning. I will try to provide you with as much ammunition as possible.

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@failures art,

failures art wrote:

You waste no time going to the one of the stupidest arguments I've ever heard.

That is a stupid thing to say.

failures art wrote:

You're going to compare the KKK to Muslims in cultural clothing?

Yeah; in other words, r thay dressing to say that thay r the enemy ??
I, for one, do not know.

failures art wrote:

KKK people aren't bonded over their love of white sheets.
They are bonded by their hatred of non-whites.

Have u interviewed them all, that u know each of their emotions with such precision, Fart ?

failures art wrote:

I assure you my thoughts on the KKK aren't about their appearance.

All KKK people hate other races.

Yeah; u know this from ASKING each one of them.
What does this tell us about your credibility ???????

failures art wrote:

19 out out several 1.57 billion Muslims fly planes into buildings.

HOW MANY MOSLEMS cheered them and danced in the streets on 9/11/1, Fart ??
Will u tell us that, Mr. Moslem Expert ?

David

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

Quote:

in other words, r thay dressing to say that thay r the enemy ??

You have a really good point. Im gonna keep my eye on these nuns and priests near Elkton. They all dress in a kind of subversive way and they live in a separate compound.
You dont think....?
Could be

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@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

Quote:
in other words, r thay dressing to say that thay r the enemy ??

You have a really good point. Im gonna keep my eye on these nuns and priests near Elkton.
They all dress in a kind of subversive way and they live in a separate compound.
You dont think....?
Could be

Yeah, and the nuns have been known to attack kids' hair.

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@tsarstepan,

Clowns! Yes! Evil to the core one and all!!

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You did miss Miller's point because you are insisting upon viewing the issue from a political perspective that, in turn, insists that the minority de jour (muslims) cannot be discussed in any way that may seem a generality or negative.

The appearences people affect can and do generate fear. Sometimes this effect is intentional (Ku Klux Klan) and sometimes it is not (muslims in clothing that identifies them to Americans as foreigners).

Not all neo-nazis shave their heads, dress all in black and wear hobnail boots, but when they (or anyone for that matter) do, they engender an emotional response from most of the people who see them. If the emotion is fear, it's hardly irrational.

Jesse Jackson once acknowledged that if he is walking down a dark and lonely street and hears footsteps behind him, he breathes a sigh of relief to see a white guy in a business suit. Obviously the fact that the person is white and wearing a suit doesn't preclude him from being a violent assailant, but Jackson's relief is hardly irrational.

We are threatened on a daily basis by terrorists who self-identify as Muslims. We have suffered numerous attacks by such individuals and in every case they have made a point of identifying themselves as Muslims.

Obviously this doesn't mean every muslim represents a threat to anyone they are near, and I think most people (including Juan Williams) know that most muslims don't represent such a threat, but the connection between Muslim and threat (particularly on planes) has been established in many minds and not without a reason that is as rational as fearing shark attacks, earthquakes, and poison Halloween candy.

Experiencing the anxiety or fear described by Williams is a rational reaction, not a crime. What seems to have been missed by his critics is the fact that he was adamant in arguing that such a reaction is not fair to the majority of muslims, nor should it be used as an excuse to treat muslims differently than anyone else.

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@Miller,

Quote:

I'm not black, but if I saw a hooded person in a white sheet standing outside my home late at night, I'd be afraid and I'd call 911. What would you do? Invite them in for a cold beer?

It probably would have been a good idea. I mean, the KKK guys would have got to see that the blacks were all just like them, good ole boys and girls, too.

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Quote:

The appearences people affect can and do generate fear. Sometimes this effect is intentional (Ku Klux Klan) and sometimes it is not (muslims in clothing that identifies them to Americans as foreigners).

There is a big problem with this logic. If you identify an American in Muslim garb as a "foreigner" you are in error. If you identify anyone in Muslim garb as a threat when they are not a threat (and logic will tell you that they almost certainly are not a threat since real terrorists have a strong incentive to blend in), then you are simply wrong. Why shouldn't the person in error be the one to change?

The issue here is monoculturalism, the theory that everyone should act alike, think alike and look alike. It seems strange to demand that Americans, who are doing nothing wrong, need to change how they look because you are nervous. The irrational fears are the problem. What's wrong with asking the people who have the irrational fears to deal with it.

Of course in our country it is not just Muslims, even though Muslims are, as you put it, the fear du jour. Homosexuals, Black teenagers, Italians and Jews have all been demonized in this same way because people thought they they should blend in so that "real Americans" wouldn't have to face their irrational fear.

I accept that Juan Williams is scared. I suggest he deal with it. This is the price he pays for living in a diverse country.

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@failures art,

Quote:

19 out out 1.57 billion Muslims fly planes into buildings.

1,421,668 military [about] & undisclosed number of CIA agents out of 310,580,053 Americans rape, torture, murder, bomb, spread WMDs around, illegally invade sovereign nations, ... .

Kinda makes you wonder which side should have a war on terror going.

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@maxdancona,

Every person who dresses like a skin-head is not a threat. Every person who dresses like a gang-banger is not a threat, but put such individuals in an environment which is perceived as potentially dangerous and those around them will feel fear or anxiety.

Juan William certainly did not suggest that muslims dressing in ways that might identify them as muslims or as foreigners should change their way of dressing. Who has?

Williams didn't blame the muslims in "muslim garb" for his feelings. He was simply acknowledging a fact of contemporary American life: Self-identified muslims have been attacking Americans and promise to continue to do so. There is nothing inherently immoral with seeing someone who looks to you like a muslim sitting across from you on a plane and feeling anxiety.

It is not an emotion that is generated by underlying hatred. It may be foolish when one considers that Islamist terrorists are probably not going to try and get on a plane in "muslim garb," but that doesn't make it sinister.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

BTW

Williams has dealt with his fear, and in a way that I would think you might admire:

He talked about it and acknowledged that if unchecked, it could lead to bad things.

You might want to remember this when you feel a ripple of fear over those foaming mouthed Tea Party members or those fanatical fundamentalist Christians.

1 Reply

@Finn dAbuzz,

Quote:

You might want to remember this when you feel a ripple of fear over those foaming mouthed Tea Party members or those fanatical fundamentalist Christians.

Where did you get this? I have no fear of Tea Party members. In fact, I am a big fan of the "foaming mouthed" Tea Party members (the more "foaming mouthed" the better).

This line of discussion is interesting though. If a Fox News commentator was fired for going on NPR to talk about being nervous around people in "tea party garb" being extremists, I wonder what side you would take.

1 Reply

@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

The appearences people affect can and do generate fear. Sometimes this effect is intentional (Ku Klux Klan) and sometimes it is not (muslims in clothing that identifies them to Americans as foreigners).

So what? That's a fear which arises from ignorance. Do you assert that it is reasonable for Americans to fear foreigners? How are they supposed to know the foreigners? I refer you to the video of Mohammed Atta in the security area before boarding the plane he would fly into the WTC.

Ignorant people fear eclipses--ignorant people fear many things. It is perfectly reasonable for rational people to deplore their ignorance-bred fears.

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Every person who dresses like a skin-head is not a threat. Every person who dresses like a gang-banger is not a threat, but put such individuals in an environment which is perceived as potentially dangerous and those around them will feel fear or anxiety.

Getting on a plane where everyone has gone through screening is an environment that is "potentially dangerous"? Calling getting on a plane "potentially dangerous" because of those around you in and of itself is an irrational fear.

Quote:

There is nothing inherently immoral with seeing someone who looks to you like a muslim sitting across from you on a plane and feeling anxiety.

I guess stupidity isn't immoral but failure to educate oneself may be.

1 Reply

@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

It is perfectly reasonable for rational people to deplore their ignorance-bred fears.

which is pretty much what Juan Williams was fired for, which is where this whole group of threads started.

He admitted his fear, said it was irrational etc etc

I still think the firing was stupid on NPR's part. Mebbe it was a tactic/strategy by Williams as some have suggested. Mebbe it was just NPR stupidity.

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@ehBeth,

Williams was fired for talking about his personal fears. His job requires him to be unbiased and when he admits bias to the public it undermines his credibility. If this was the only instance, I would agree with you but Williams had been warned before about this. When an employee is given a warning not to do certain things and then they do them, they can and probably should be fired.

Of course part of this is in the context of Helen Thomas and Rick Sanchez being fired for similar comments.

1 Reply

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