25
   

Absolute truth?

 
 
Vijay Karippil
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Jun, 2011 11:14 pm
Truth and absolute truth are like a circle. We know a truth in transition within the circle. And we may know the center of the circle, too, which is constant. When the absolute truth has no change at the center, the rest is all subject to change. Since all else is changing, one seeks absolute truth. Philosophy is born of the concern about transient nature of things. We have our basic fear and concern about all that we hold dear including life itself. We know, they will not last long. We know, they are not durable, they are not fixed. Hence, we seek the absolute truth, if there be anything!!
Vijay
guigus
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Jun, 2011 06:33 am
@Vijay Karippil,
Vijay Karippil wrote:

Truth and absolute truth are like a circle. We know a truth in transition within the circle. And we may know the center of the circle, too, which is constant. When the absolute truth has no change at the center, the rest is all subject to change. Since all else is changing, one seeks absolute truth. Philosophy is born of the concern about transient nature of things. We have our basic fear and concern about all that we hold dear including life itself. We know, they will not last long. We know, they are not durable, they are not fixed. Hence, we seek the absolute truth, if there be anything!!
Vijay


Your metaphor is surprisingly accurate---it just lacks a rational, rigorous conceptual framework.
guigus
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Jun, 2011 06:35 am
@krebbet,
krebbet wrote:

yes there are absolute truths. Things are the way they are despite our knowledge of them and so they are truely themselves.


This is just old materialism, which couldn't be farer from absolute truth.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Jun, 2011 09:26 am
@guigus,
Isn't it strange that what humans call absolute truths has so many truths. LOL

Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Jun, 2011 10:52 am
@guigus,
Its my understanding that both views are somewhat reconcilable, that is, yes, things are what they are considering they are manny things simultaneously...they have a fumctional multi purpose potential that can fit several roles...the criteria to establish their existence its and should only be precisely that they do work and operate in several contexts...after all what other criteria are we legitimaly allowed to ask for?seriously?
0 Replies
 
jovie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Jun, 2011 11:10 am
@kennethamy,
Harumph


Amen
.
0 Replies
 
guigus
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Jun, 2011 05:19 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Isn't it strange that what humans call absolute truths has so many truths. LOL




It's much more than strange, so you shouldn't stop there---instead of LOL (Laughing Out Loud) try TDS (Thinking Deep and Silently).
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Thu 2 Jun, 2011 05:24 pm
@guigus,
"Thinking deep" is no longer a past time for me. I just enjoy the simple things in life like world travel to enjoy the people, their food, their sites, and their drinks.

Visit my travelogue at travelpod.com. I have over 200 entries, and more than 15,000 hits from around the world.
0 Replies
 
north
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Jun, 2011 06:26 pm
@Dasein,
Dasein wrote:

Yes trees can become petrified and become rock, however, once they become rock they are no longer trees.

Rocks are rocks and trees are trees unless like dinosaurs and plant life they become petrified.

You know what north was talking about. Haven't you got better things to do than to spend your time being a contrary simpleton? My past experience of you says that you are more intelligent than that.


thanks Dasein

he does know what I'm saying and so does everybody else who has some , I hate to say it , a dumb response

I have yet to see a petrified wood produce , grow bark , leaves and sap

Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Jun, 2011 06:34 pm
@north,
Quote:
I have yet to see a petrified wood produce , grow bark , leaves and sap


Have you considered that it might be because you are not thinking it through? Here's some considerations I posted earlier, because it seems you guys missed it. It was in response to Dasein saying that the sand doesn't become a tree, the seed does:

How do you suppose the seed becomes a tree? Does the matter that makes up the seed magically multiply? Where does the additional matter that makes the tree come from? Is it locked away in the tiny thing that lands in the ground?

What do you think happens with the stuff you eat? Does it just pass through you? No. Your body uses the matter you put into yourself as food to build new cells and renew itself. If you eat a burger, part of what used to be a cow now is altered and becomes you. It becomes the cells your body is made of. The same way with a tree. For the seed to grow it needs additional matter to transform into "tree", and nowhere can that be found except in the ground which the seed lies in.

So if that ground is petrified wood crushed into sand, that old tree will become a new tree, produce bark, leaves and sap.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Jun, 2011 06:38 pm
@Cyracuz,
I follow your sequence of events that makes it possible for the seed to grow into a tree, and how it evolves over time into a seed again.

0 Replies
 
north
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Jun, 2011 06:45 pm
@Cyracuz,
Cyracuz wrote:

Quote:
I have yet to see a petrified wood produce , grow bark , leaves and sap


Have you considered that it might be because you are not thinking it through? Here's some considerations I posted earlier, because it seems you guys missed it. It was in response to Dasein saying that the sand doesn't become a tree, the seed does:

How do you suppose the seed becomes a tree? Does the matter that makes up the seed magically multiply? Where does the additional matter that makes the tree come from? Is it locked away in the tiny thing that lands in the ground?

What do you think happens with the stuff you eat? Does it just pass through you? No. Your body uses the matter you put into yourself as food to build new cells and renew itself. If you eat a burger, part of what used to be a cow now is altered and becomes you. It becomes the cells your body is made of. The same way with a tree. For the seed to grow it needs additional matter to transform into "tree", and nowhere can that be found except in the ground which the seed lies in.




Quote:
So if that ground is petrified wood crushed into sand, that old tree will become a new tree, produce bark, leaves and sap.


petrified wood is the cells of wood that has been replaced by sand , whereby all the genetic material is LOST , completely , get it


Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Jun, 2011 06:57 pm
@north,
Not replaced by sand. Changed into sand. It's not about genetic material. You need to expand your perspective to get what I am saying. It is the same matter, and even though all its genetic properties are lost, the energy it contains is used by the seed to form a new tree, so there is no way around it. Petrified wood can become the bodies of living trees. Dead people who rot in the ground can become nutrients for plants, animals can eat the plants, transferring the matter from the dead bodies to their own bodies. Then a human might eat the animal, and the matter that was once an entirely different person years and years ago now becomes part of the body of someone living today. This is all a big cycle which we are all part of.
north
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Jun, 2011 07:06 pm
@Cyracuz,
Cyracuz wrote:

Not replaced by sand. Changed into sand. It's not about genetic material. You need to expand your perspective to get what I am saying. It is the same matter, and even though all its genetic properties are lost, the energy it contains is used by the seed to form a new tree, so there is no way around it. Petrified wood can become the bodies of living trees. Dead people who rot in the ground can become nutrients for plants, animals can eat the plants, transferring the matter from the dead bodies to their own bodies. Then a human might eat the animal, and the matter that was once an entirely different person years and years ago now becomes part of the body of someone living today. This is all a big cycle which we are all part of.


ahh.. but your talking about soil NOT sand , notice that there NO trees growing around a petrified forest
0 Replies
 
north
 
  2  
Reply Thu 2 Jun, 2011 08:36 pm
absolute truths are all around us , hence things don't change into something completely different because they can't , not as they are

elements such as , mercury , aluminum , iron , oxygen , hydrogen and anywhere in the periodic table are what they are , hence they are called elements

they are all absolute truths , not because I say so but because we have studied them

in life forms its the same way , true many transform , but at this point in moments ( time if you prefer ) they are what they are because of genetics and enviroment in which these life forms live

enviroment changes the molecular structure of life

life is about the molecular structure of life

so change the molecular structure of life , changes the life form , but the previous life form is still what it is , an absolute truth life form , as is the life form after change

so each form is absolute in its own way , because that it is the only form it could take , because of the limits of potential , at that momment
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Jun, 2011 09:04 pm
@north,
I think both of you are on the right track. You're talking past each other, because of how we're trying to communicate what happens in evolution. After all, that's all there is. Even chemical elements, as pure as they are, do change. It's only a matter of time, and how the environment impacts everything; even human manipulation.

Don't you agree?
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Jun, 2011 09:34 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Sounds right to me.
0 Replies
 
north
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Jun, 2011 09:36 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

I think both of you are on the right track. You're talking past each other, because of how we're trying to communicate what happens in evolution. After all, that's all there is. Even chemical elements, as pure as they are, do change. It's only a matter of time, and how the environment impacts everything; even human manipulation.

Don't you agree?


yes and no

perhaps he picked a bad example ( not perhaps he did ) , petrified forests

evolution is all there is in life forms

chemical elements do change , some do any way , not all

the thing is , my point , is that the fundamental element is an absolute truth , it is the root of all isotopes

to your last statement , an absolute truth

but there is as well the absolute truth in what something cannot ever be

hence my tree to rock , rock to tree



cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Jun, 2011 09:41 pm
@north,
Let's split some atoms, and let this one go. Wink
north
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Jun, 2011 09:48 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Let's split some atoms, and let this one go. Wink


not yet Wink
0 Replies
 
 

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