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Define Pretentiousness

 
 
Reply Mon 13 Sep, 2010 05:56 am
Buzz word at art school.
I think I might have been once, but I'm probably not now.
I have a personal definition, but I wanted to see what anyone else thought.
Often it's used here in conjunction with someone thinking deeply or seriously about something...
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Type: Discussion • Score: 2 • Views: 2,067 • Replies: 27

 
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Sep, 2010 06:41 am
@The Pentacle Queen,
The Pentacle Queen wrote:

Buzz word at art school.
I think I might have been once, but I'm probably not now.
I have a personal definition, but I wanted to see what anyone else thought.
Often it's used here in conjunction with someone thinking deeply or seriously about something...

I think it is pretty obvious, and pretty pedestrian as a criticism, since no one pretends to be what they is, and most pretend to be what they isn't, and yet grow in the process... I do not think it works as an insult because it cuts both ways... Simply put; Art is a form, and as a form is also a form of relationship, and when people are in a form, the form sort of structures their behavior so they do not really have to relate because relations, informal relationships, without the rules of form are very stressful... So people welcome the form, and welcome relating to a minimum and following the form to the maximum... It stands to reason, from my perspective, that much of formal behavior is pretense, that soldiers salute officers they consider idiots, and welcome the opportunity rather than just letting it hang, and speaking their mind, and having all those consequences come rushing in... School, art school, any school is a formal situation, and one in which people get to pretend with essentially no harm or fouls...

The world does not need any more artists, especially formal artists... Artists need art, not art school... An artist finds some means of expression suited to his ability no matter how his abilities are constrained... But, then; art is subject, and no matter what the form of expression, it is the relationship of artist to subject that comes through true art... So again, art will always be pretention to the extent that it is form, and will always be real, and inimitable to the extent it is relationship...
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djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Sep, 2010 06:49 am
i'm still working at becoming prehensile
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Sep, 2010 07:21 am
@djjd62,
djjd62 wrote:

i'm still working at becoming prehensile

Define that.
djjd62
 
  2  
Reply Mon 13 Sep, 2010 07:27 am
@Fido,
i would but i've got this splitting headache



(keep trying to hang from my tail, and falling on my head Confused )
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Sep, 2010 07:35 am
@djjd62,
Laughing
0 Replies
 
PUNKEY
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Sep, 2010 07:39 am
Simon Cowell would use "self indulgent" and "pretentious" to describe some of the performances on American Idol.

I took it to mean that it was a performance that was more about the artist than the work. And it came out not true.
0 Replies
 
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Sep, 2010 08:09 am
how do folks see the difference between pretentiousness and snobbery

i have friends and acquaintances who see me as a music snob, because i tend to like things outside the mainstream, i don't think this is true myself, i like almost all genres of music (okay, i don't get metal music), and it's true that i don't like much in the way of mainstream music (top 40 radio, american idol, country pop), it's more that i search out things and just don't except what's forced on me from the radio

location has a lot to do with it, i live in a rural area, a few years back at work someone asked what the music was that coming from my work space and it was described as "Joe's"* music, however when i lived in Toronto, my musical choices would be more excepted and widely known

*(funny thing, the band that was playing was a very much loved, but obscure band called Guided by Voices who hailed from Ohio, less than 100 miles south of where i was listening to them)
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Sep, 2010 08:25 am
@djjd62,
djjd62 wrote:

i would but i've got this splitting headache



(keep trying to hang from my tail, and falling on my head Confused )
I might often have hung for my tail, and hung stuff on my tail; but I never considered hanging on/by my tail...
0 Replies
 
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Sep, 2010 08:28 am
@djjd62,
I think pretentiousness means 'with pretense', in other words lacking genuineness.
In terms of music and art, pretentiousness might be expressed or manifested by someone pretending to like something just because it's what they think they should like or what they'd like to be seen or known as liking, because it might indicate that their level of appreciation of something is either elevated over that of those who like of accept what's popular in the mainstream or more sophisticated or informed or cool or whatever...

So if you're pretentious, you pretend to like what think you should like, are embarrassed to admit you like what you think it's not cool to like- in other words you pretend to be or strive to appear to be something that you're not.

And it changes depending upon who you're with. It'd be like if I hung out with people at art school and said, 'I really love the Velvet Underground' when I truly loved The Backstreet Boys or someone like that.
My problem is, I love both...I wouldn't be able to choose.

I'm trying to think of someone who's known as totally pretentious and all I keep thinking of is who is totally unpretentious or the opposite of pretentious and for all his horrible qualities and faults the one person I keep coming back to as personifying or embodying lack of pretense or lack of pretentiousness is George Bush (the son). He couldn't be pretentious if someone gave him lessons and paid him a million dollars. That's one good thing that can be said about him.
0 Replies
 
GoshisDead
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Sep, 2010 10:15 am
@djjd62,
djjd62 wrote:

i'm still working at becoming prehensile

you have a tail?
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Sep, 2010 10:47 am
@GoshisDead,
GoshisDead wrote:

djjd62 wrote:

i'm still working at becoming prehensile

you have a tail?
what exactjy is the neaning of the word? I have heard of the girraff's toungue descrbed in that fashion, so it may not only be associated with tails...
GoshisDead
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Sep, 2010 11:06 am
@Fido,
Its not only associated with tails, It is associated with precision grip and textured surface pads that allow for grip. I was just bing a punk.
0 Replies
 
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Sep, 2010 11:22 am
@djjd62,
Snobbery is where one acts as he/she is above others and does have the qualities or resources such as snobbish noblemen whereas pretentiousness is fake snobbery.
0 Replies
 
PUNKEY
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Sep, 2010 11:25 am
Nelson Mandella and Mother Theresa = not pretentious
Kanye West, George W. Bush, The Donald, Former Detroit Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick = pretentious

Pride is at the core of this, I believe.
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Sep, 2010 11:33 am
@PUNKEY,
I disagree that pride is at the core of pretentiousness. I think it's the opposite - in other words, insecurity is at its core.
One who is pretentious is not persuaded that what they are or think is enough, so they have to perform and adopt pretense to become someone or something else.

How do you find George Bush (the son) pretentious? As far as I can see, he was absolutely UNABLE to become someone else - even when it would have benefitted him to look as if he was smarter, more presentable, and less of a bumpkin. Yet he never changed a hair on his head or even learned how to speak correctly to portray himself as different from what he is/was.

So if you could explain how you find George Bush pretentious, I'd be interested to hear/read.

talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Sep, 2010 11:47 am
@aidan,
He was told not to"smirk"
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Sep, 2010 11:53 am
@talk72000,
And he couldn't even change himself to follow that direction.
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Sep, 2010 11:58 am
@aidan,
Regardless, he has a sly pretentiousness. Many stupid people display it. When they open their mouths their stupidity shows.
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Sep, 2010 12:17 pm
@talk72000,
Huh? Can you explain? I have to say that's never been my experience-stupid people=pretentious?
I find it a little presumptious to believe that I even know if someone I've never met is pretentious or not. How can you know if something is a pretense unless you know the person? I find it much easier to recognize when someone I don't really know appears NOT to evidence pretention than to believe that I have any real idea whether they DO.

Just to show how unpretentious I am - is pretention a word? Does it mean the same thing as pretentiousness?
I could google it and pretend I know - but I don't want to seem pretentious.
 

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