children deprived of philosophy

@HexHammer,

HexHammer wrote:

When most aduldt can't make philosophy that make sense, it's even more senseless to think that kids can.

i was hoping we can divest that situation we have by making them more apt to rationalizing at a early age.
-55hikky

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@HexHammer,

Quote:

They will only produce ramblings like communism, inquisitorial doctrins and dictatorious thoughts

Are you suggesting that communists, inquisitors and dictators have no ethics?

I don't think it is possible to have an inquisition without a strong system of ethics. For that matter, I would think most dictatorships have been supported by ethics.

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@HexHammer,

HexHammer wrote:

They will only produce ramblings like communism, inquisitorial doctrins and dictatorious thoughts

if teachers are even capable of teaching children the concept of our current past and other country's governments well enough to even get them to ramble about communism, to have enough leadership, insight, knowledge to establish an inquisition, I think that is a very glorious step for mankind.

I am actually promoting some chaos (secretly in my opinion),
women had no rights and are heading towards too much rights (in the sense that they feel that they obsess over the concept of "need-to-the-same-thing-as-men-to-be-considered-human"... but as reality shows is not the case), and eventually will reach a equilibrium.
church had too much authority, and now too little in the sense that not enough people cherish life, have a sense of community, participate in charitable volunteer works etc. and eventually it will be the best of both worlds.

I feel that today we have diverted too much of our attention in making money and everything in the world is suffering; water, air, land, animals, mankind. obviously there is an unbalance in SOMETHING, I hope we can agree in this sense, as it was the case with women, slaves, kings and gods. Small group of activists and authorities try to ameliorate the situation, but it's almost insignificant in relativity in aspects of intensity and effectiveness. I have a sense that the west is prospering TOO much and perhaps a "reset" of this will be therapeutic for humanity as a whole...
of course, the west, and any first world countries will try to resolve this through technology, not that i'm agains that and i'm not trying to go into political issues. just trying to assess our current situation; schools losing funds, temperature rising = we are dying but spending more money on keeping the adults that created this mess happy and leaving less and less hope for the future...

what's ONE ethics class at 5th grade going to hurt.
(assuming there are 4 semesters in a year, 13 years of required school, and you take 5 classes/semester. that's 260 classes you have to take... we really can't have 0.4% of our educational life spent on philosophy???)

is it really going to yield kids to start contemplating about herecy?
aren't we kinda going down a slippery slope here...?

-55hikky

2 Replies

@55hikky,

What is heaviest, 1 metric ton of lead or 1 metric ton of feathers?

1 Reply

@HexHammer,

you mean
1 metric ton of every adult brain or 1 class full of children armed with the knowledge of 1 metric ton of adult brain.
your quips aren't helping.

thanks for participating; i am glad you took your precious time to contribute to this discussion.

so far everyone's against enlightening children, this is invaluable data I have gained from this discussion.
-55hikky

1 Reply

@55hikky,

55hikky wrote:

what's ONE ethics class at 5th grade going to hurt.
(assuming there are 4 semesters in a year, 13 years of required school, and you take 5 classes/semester. that's 260 classes you have to take... we really can't have 0.4% of our educational life spent on philosophy???)
-55hikky

Five semesters per year. You might be wrong about other stuff, too.

1 Reply

@roger,

i was actually being modest with 4 semesters since most people, that i know of, only have fall and spring, and SOME will take summer classes... so the majority of the life of the people that are around me, really only take 3 semesters at most.
once in college or university, then some give the option of two short summer sessions, which is, what i'm assuming, how you came up with FIVE semesters worth of studying time. in some universities each "semesters" are even called "quarters" (for a reason, not "fifths").
and even if there is the opportunity to take all 4 semesters, not everyone goes to school every summer and winter, some people take these off to spend time with family or travel, so in more than one ways, me stating that we go through 4 semesters is an over estimate.

in which regions are there 5 semesters ?

and yes, i may be wrong about "other stuff", if i didn't think so, i wouldn't post it as a discussion topic and give thumbs up to everyone that disagrees with me.

care to share what you think is wrong with my posts? i already gave you an thumbs up =)

1 Reply

@55hikky,

55hikky wrote:

you mean
1 metric ton of every adult brain or 1 class full of children armed with the knowledge of 1 metric ton of adult brain.
your quips aren't helping.

thanks for participating; i am glad you took your precious time to contribute to this discussion.

so far everyone's against enlightening children, this is invaluable data I have gained from this discussion.
-55hikky

This is a very old and very simple question, it's a simple but essential premesis of sensible philosophy which you fail to take serious and answer.
I'v seen many adults fail utterly at this question, and if adults does, children will too ..that's the essence in my philosophy which I have tryed to tell you.

It's futile to apply philosophy if it only ends up in waste of time.

1 Reply

@55hikky,

I know of none that have 5. Or 4. I've heard of two semesters, I've heard of trimesters, and I have heard of two semesters and a summer session. That was kind of my point.

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@HexHammer,

wait, can you put your ridicule aside for one sec, i really want to know what you meant by that riddle.
my first intuition is; it's the same.
what's the philosophical lesson behind that?
that the two extremes are equally unjust and immoral as one other?

ok back to the post.
what do you mean, don't try it if it's going to be useless... do you really believe in this???
Rosa Parks, Gandhi, Socrates... didn't these people do something because they believed in it? they didn't do it because they KNEW it was going to be the key to changing to world. they did it because they believed in it, believed in what was right, against the WORLD.
if it is one thing that i would admit that is irrational about my belief is that I will do what I believe is morally and ethically right, whether it does, or does not FIX, whatever i believe is wrong.

how do you live your life, not doing anything about what you think is unjust, or irrational?

do you just insult them, or it, and hope it goes away?

well, maybe. very honorable in that sense, to have the ability to live with that sort of adherence to something you disagree with.
(or i guess i omitted the possibility that you agree withe everything that is told to you...)

-55hikky

1 Reply

@roger,

5 classes, 2 semesters, 12 years.
120 classes
0.8% of your school career. there!

sorry, i didn't get your sarcasm when you said 5 sememsters. =b

-55hikky

0 Replies

@55hikky,

55hikky wrote:

wait, can you put your ridicule aside for one sec, i really want to know what you meant by that riddle.
my first intuition is; it's the same.
what's the philosophical lesson behind that?
that the two extremes are equally unjust and immoral as one other?

ok back to the post.
what do you mean, don't try it if it's going to be useless... do you really believe in this???
Rosa Parks, Gandhi, Socrates... didn't these people do something because they believed in it? they didn't do it because they KNEW it was going to be the key to changing to world. they did it because they believed in it, believed in what was right, against the WORLD.
if it is one thing that i would admit that is irrational about my belief is that I will do what I believe is morally and ethically right, whether it does, or does not FIX, whatever i believe is wrong.

how do you live your life, not doing anything about what you think is unjust, or irrational?

do you just insult them, or it, and hope it goes away?

well, maybe. very honorable in that sense, to have the ability to live with that sort of adherence to something you disagree with.
(or i guess i omitted the possibility that you agree withe everything that is told to you...)

-55hikky

Yes, they'r equal in weight, but you arrive to the answer with much doubt and uncertainty.

What you suggest is to waste time reinventing everything, when it's already there to read and learn, not very pragmatic. Least Ghandi I'm sure wouldn't be able to do what he did, without his education being a lawyer.

What kids would spend days, weeks, months and even years thinking, they can read in just matter of minutes.

I put my money excatly where my mouth is, I put my own ass on the fireing line to go every step of my ideals and morals. I could easily have been fired on several occations meddeling in buisness beyond my own, when I could just look the other way and keep my job, I doubt any of you wousses in here have the guts to do what I have done through my life.

I'm intelligent enough to make my own oppinions and does not need anyone to manipulate me into popular oppinions ..spare me.

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Actually, children were taught ethics through their primers beginning in the third grade. I have no idea whether primers are used today and, if they are, where. However, a great deal of "kid lit" contains situations which make children reason to the ethical answer.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

I have known people who turned to philosophy after earning doctorates in math and physics because their quests weren't satisfied in the sciences.

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Quote:

Why is it that we do not teach the importance of communication, society, rationality, values and ethics to children?

We do. Many critics of education feel time is wasted on these matters.

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@plainoldme,

And I have known people who have turned to strong drink.

1 Reply

@plainoldme,

Quote:

Quote:

Why is it that we do not teach the importance of communication, society, rationality, values and ethics to children?

We do. Many critics of education feel time is wasted on these matters.

Communication is learned in English class. Society is learned in History class, rationality is learned in math and science.

Values and ethics aren't learned in school nor should they be.

In my opinion, the study of philosophy isn't that important for any of these topics.

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Philosophy as a rigourous intellectual discipline is not a proper subject for schoolchildren. What is proper to their stage of intellectual development and background is a course in "philosophical thinking" by which I mean critical thinking, especially in a democratic and open society. The ability to recognise formal fallacies and especially informal fallacies,to judge arguments and supporting evidence on rational merits, are important and useful tools for anyone whatever their station in life, and should thus be required before getting a high school diploma.

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I haven't read all these posts in their entirety. And I don't know much about philosophy.

I am a teacher of middle school students (12-13 year olds). Most of the time it feels like we don't have enough time to teach the basics (math, eng, ss, sci). Foreign language is than highly recommended for most students. Sometimes kids don't have time for gym class (mine often have learning center in lieu of language or gym).

That being said..... we teach subjects by stacking information. The idea is to deconstruct a topic and break it into levels of understanding. Kids learn the basics one year and then add to the topic in following years.

What are the fundamental skills needed to begin the study of philosophy? Logic, cause and effect...? I really don't know. My guess is that a lot of these skills are being taught to students (with varying degrees of success) in the classes they have now. For example, a science lab involves the scientific procedures which seem to me to be good use of cause and effect, linear thinking, and other 'thinking' skills.

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@plainoldme,

I actually have no idea how many books there are that teach this, but I can agree with you for sure.

so then i'd ask, why stop there?
we have proven that these children are fully capable of reading "kid lit" and understand ethical ideas...

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children deprived of philosophy

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