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what is the beggining of philosophy?

 
 
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Aug, 2011 08:26 am
@reasoning logic,
reasoning logic wrote:

Quote:
from cells to molecules from molecules to atoms from atoms to fermions bosons quarks fluctuating in quantum states of potential character arrangements, algorithms of a metaphysical language...what else ? Plato understood this quite well...


How did Plato know about cells to molecules from molecules to atoms from atoms to fermions bosons quarks fluctuating in quantum states of potential character arrangements, algorithms of a metaphysical language.

I guess Plato knew about how things keep breaking down to into smaller forms?
If by things you mean Res, that is: Reality; then things do not break down into smaller forms... The most common element in the cosmos is hydrogen, and it is the most simple atom out of which all others are built, in the process of which, energy is lost... It takes a great deal of potential energy in to get atoms to split into smaller parts for which only a fraction of energy is released... Generally, all matter is growing in mass and giving up energy all the time, and all matter can be considered radio active, most with a great half life span... So, on this point as upon many, Plato was talking out of his ass having nothing better to go on than a hunch...
reasoning logic
 
  0  
Reply Sat 6 Aug, 2011 08:36 am
@Fido,
Quote:
all matter is growing in mass and giving up energy all the time, and all matter can be considered radio active, most with a great half life span.


This is close to how I have heard it but I will not try to act as if I have a good understanding of it!

Quote:
Plato was talking out of his ass having nothing better to go on than a hunch...


I can relate to this. Me and Plato seem to have something in common at times!
0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Aug, 2011 09:48 am
@reasoning logic,
Plato believed in the pure forms as the basis of all reality (geometry and maths) and that was my point considering the true nature of the "material" world....Fido simply does n´t have a clue on what I am talking about so I leave him to his ignorance and demagoguery...
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Aug, 2011 10:04 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
I really must start to resist the urge and stop addressing people who simply don´t have the "tools" to debate be it by lack of intelligence or either because they belong to an older generation with a different cosmogony and different paradigms on how we should make sense of our world...its pure loss of time and it makes me look bad aside not achieving any constructive result...I wish them all the best but from now on I will simply make a general reply to the threads without addressing outdated lagging conceptual frames...to each is own...
0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Aug, 2011 10:53 am
...the problem could be reduced to a simple question regarding the importance of functions in the construct of reality...

...does language precedes being or is it a consequence of being ?

The other way around:

...is the "patternicity" of certain algorithms in "natural language" the only ground of being ?
...Is language forever repeating those patterns ?
...and why is it that those patterns can only be shown through "language"/function ?
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Aug, 2011 11:11 am
@Fil Albuquerque,

Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Aug, 2011 11:27 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
"Philosophy is written in this grand book - I mean the Universe - which stands continually open to our gaze, but it cannot be understood unless one first learns to comprehend the language and interpret the characters in which it is written. It is written in the language of mathematics, and its characters are triangles, circles and other geometrical figures, without which it is humanly impossible to understand a single word of it."
Galileo Galilei
Fil Albuquerque
 
  2  
Reply Sat 6 Aug, 2011 11:30 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Aug, 2011 12:22 pm
It could be said that while some people around believe language is an emergent feature in humans other like me see it as a repeating phenomena in nature itself at several layer levels but always conveying the very same patterns everywhere...
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Aug, 2011 12:52 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Thank you for sharing. There seems to be allot that we can learn from geometry and the natural world.
That video reminded me of another video that was of a different topic I seen a while back!


Bio-mimicry
0 Replies
 
boagie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Dec, 2011 11:17 pm
@reasoning logic,
WONDER!!
0 Replies
 
bosi
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Apr, 2012 09:43 pm
@reasoning logic,
@ reasoning logic : I agree with jgweed, Many philosophers said that the beginning of philosophy is the sense of wonder,
miletians (miletos philosophers) began with the sense of wonder of the nature.
Socrates continued with the sense of wonder of human,
and Plato-Aristotle defined with the sense of wonder of God,
i think there is no doubt the histories and they have been strongly felt by us till now.
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Apr, 2012 09:15 am
@bosi,
As Nietzshe was able to prove: Curiosity killed every cat in the cathouse...

Let me see if I can put this another way: Wonder was death to primitive peoples so they were inclined to grasp at myths that tended to explain their existence to them in a plausible fashion...It is luxury which is the death of peoples that is the life of philosophy since only with luxury, meaning leisure time, can anyone give free rein to their wonder... But all the time that lucury is destroying their morality which is their strength as a nation of people, they are asking what is morality and having less and less of the thing by way of example to study...The clock is ticking for the civilization and the citizen who becomes self conscious... They are already on their way to the trash heap of history...What is the word Nietzsche applied to Socrates??? The thought he had was right anyway... Philosophy grows out of the degeneration of civilizations
0 Replies
 
TimeTravel
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Aug, 2012 12:16 pm
@reasoning logic,
The beginning of Philosophy is when a Religion is first Organizing.
Religions at their conception are pure fertility codes of ethics or rules of conduct that lead to greater longevity and fertility for members.
As my proof I ask you to listen to the sounds of the word Philosophy for the first time; FILL LAW SOW FEE. Now what that means is obvious;
Laws of ethics govern the fact that each generation is a gene ration
and that each generation is required to SOW FEE or to reproduce.
True philosophy and religion is fertile, otherwise it causes loss of life.
As further proof I point out that Americans who follow a religion outlive others by about 7 years, regardless if they follow Christianity Judaism or Islam;
and they have more children; supporting my observation.
If men are organizing to promote abortion and adultery, it is not a developing philosophy; rather, it is a developing social disease.
If men are organizing to promote universal marriage laws, and systems of educating children, so they multiply and prosper, it is the beginning of a Philosophy.
This is a misleading science and there exists many false assumptions, for example, the concept that an education system that drastically lowers fertility observed in educated women is good. In my model ideas that lower fertility are apparently evil, and not a philosophy, but a social disease.
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Mon 27 Aug, 2012 12:42 pm
@TimeTravel ,
You really don't know your human history, do you!
TimeTravel
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Aug, 2012 02:29 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Wow cicerone you put so much into that comment! So ambitious. Your arguments are amazing and so well supported. Did you even get off the sofa? I took more history classes than I can remember; history is written by the offspring of successful breeding. Everyone else just becomes forgotten layers of bones.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Mon 27 Aug, 2012 03:09 pm
@TimeTravel ,
Your first sentence from your previous post.
Quote:
The beginning of Philosophy is when a Religion is first Organizing.


Where did you "learn" this cockamamee idea?

From Wiki.
Quote:
Origins





Bust of the philosopher Socrates. Roman copy of Greek original (c.380-360 BC)
[edit] Etymology

The term philosophy is taken from the Greek word "φιλεω" (phileo) meaning "to love" or "to befriend" and "σοφια" (sophia) meaning "wisdom." Thus, "philosophy" means "the love of wisdom". Socrates, a Greek philosopher, used the term philosophy as an equivalent to the search for wisdom. Also, the term wisdom is used as a general term for describing the intellectual probing of any idea.

[edit] Introduction to Philosophy

The study of any discipline, such as Philosophy, should begin with its definition. Webster's dictionary defines philosophy as:

"the rational investigation of questions about existence and knowledge and ethics"

The definition highlights the nature of philosophical inquiry. Philosophers ask questions. These questions try to understand the metaphysical and physical world of man. Philosophy is considered to have developed as a form of rational inquiry in the cities of Ancient Greece.

[edit] Pre-Socratics

The history of philosophy in the west begins with the Greeks, and particularly with a group of philosophers commonly called the pre-Socratics. This is not to deny the occurrence of other pre-philosophical rumblings in Egyptian and Babylonian cultures. Certainly great thinkers and writers existed in each of these cultures, and we have evidence that some of the earliest Greek philosophers may have had contact with at least some of the products of Egyptian and Babylonian thought. However, the early Greek thinkers added at least one element which differentiates their thoughts from all those who came before them. For the first time in history, we discover in their writings something more than dogmatic assertions about the ordering of the world -- we find reasoned arguments for various beliefs about the world.


Get your money back; your education about history has failed you.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  0  
Reply Mon 27 Aug, 2012 04:30 pm
@cicerone imposter,
...he is in fact right and your reply is really stupid...not surprised at all.
His fertile imagination on justifying a rightful assessment is beyond the point...anyone who believes Philosophy started with Socrates or Plato or Greece is well dumb beyond recognition...
Fil Albuquerque
 
  0  
Reply Mon 27 Aug, 2012 04:41 pm
@TimeTravel ,
Your answer is correct your justification is pathetic...
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 27 Aug, 2012 04:46 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Why do you bother with just ad hominems without knowing what you are talking about.

From Wiki.
Quote:
History of philosophy

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The history of philosophy is the study of philosophical ideas and concepts through time. Issues specifically related to history of philosophy might include (but are not limited to): How can changes in philosophy be accounted for historically? What drives the development of thought in its historical context? To what degree can philosophical texts from prior historical eras even be understood today?

All cultures — be they prehistoric, medieval, or modern; Eastern, Western, religious or secular — have had their own unique schools of philosophy, arrived at through both inheritance and through independent discovery. Such theories have grown from different premises and approaches, examples of which include (but are not limited to) rationalism (theories arrived at through logic), empiricism (theories arrived at through observation), and even through leaps of faith, hope and inheritance (such as the supernaturalist philosophies and religions).


Also,
Quote:
Philosophy


From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Philosophy is the study of general and fundamental problems, such as those connected with reality, existence, knowledge, values, reason, mind, and language.[1][2] Philosophy is distinguished from other ways of addressing such problems by its critical, generally systematic approach and its reliance on rational argument.[3] The word "philosophy" comes from the Greek φιλοσοφία (philosophia), which literally means "love of wisdom".[4][5][6]


If you can accept the fact that philosophy was "born" when man started to question his existence - without its bases on religion. Religions came much later in human history.
 

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