what is the beggining of philosophy?

@Fido,

Are you speaking of trying to interpret historical philosophical view points? I may be at a loss here!

If we are speaking philosophy in the the presence I can not see where we would have a problem question each other about meaning, because I would think that philosophy would be about questioning!

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@reasoning logic,

Recognising that you are not a hamster! Animals the world over are very curious things. A hamster hears a noise and goes to investigate with eyes closed and all.. Bears will go after smells to great lengths and cats will look up at birds and think i want to get that bird! BUT unless someone shows me a cat fashioning wings out of linens or a bear trying to build a fire to better his fish I will assume that we are the only species that has been both blessed and cursed with this need to not only know things but put them into practice. I believe philosopy starts in everyone with a question in your mind that isn't instinctual, habitual or even logical. If I remained instinctual, habitual and logical I would be no more than a hamster in a cage simply existing. This response requires more thought and better wording but I hope my point is there.

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@cicerone imposter,

amen to that. lol

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@Dasein,

My question here is, if you take away all of the things that represent you to just solely 'Be' yourself.. what are those things? I picture a homeless guy with absolutely nothing to his name. Personally when I look at someone I see a person representing their culture, race, family, home and clothes.. I assume when people see me they know that I represent the things around me. I have made this life for myself in and around billions of others doing the same. You are right in saying you are not an identity but isn't it also true to say that you are not your ideas or your personality? unless you share something you are nothing to those around you.. to do that, I feel you must have an identity. The intelligent ones understand the concept of flashy packaging.

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@thedoctor,

True: I see "thedoctor" as flashy packaging. At least, I'm an "imposter."

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@cicerone imposter,

Oh wow.. it's a name. If you are going to comment please keep it intelligent. Again, I can only assume you didn't get what I was saying.

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@thedoctor,

I just wonder how many really understand what you're trying to get at beyond your insults.

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@cicerone imposter,

they are only directed at you as you seem to have some sort of insecurity about your status here and how many friends you have.. Again, I'm here to discuss philosophy. Please keep your ridiculous and redundant comments to yourself.

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@thedoctor,

Insecurity? LOL The fact that I have many friends around the world is a fact. It has nothing to do with insecurity.

If I had any insecurity, I would be more timid about how I address family and friends. I'm secure in my thought processes, and what I believe.

All my siblings are christians; I'm an atheist married to a buddhist. I have discussions about politics and religion without any fear. If that's what you deem as insecurity, your observations are not accurate.

Your imagination is working overtime.

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@cicerone imposter,

holy **** will you stop with all the redundant crap! please!! i am not here to learn about you and your wife and your friends.. i don't care about that.. what i do care about is discussing philosophy. you don't seem to be. that's great that you are an atheist married to a buddhist.. i'm a buddhist dating a lutheran. but who gives a ****? this whole thing started because you responded to a post of mine. your response was uneducated and absolute.. i don't deal well in absolutes when discussing philosophy nor should you. let's just discuss the topics at hand and not about what we do in our spare time.

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@thedoctor,

If you're not interested in what I have to say, you sure keep reading my posts.

Are you a masochist of some kind? LOL

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I have a question for the two of you!

Do you think that it could be possible that the two of you got off to a bad start?
Could one of you have taken a response from the other more emotionally than what it was intended and then a down hill snow ball effect began?

I find it interesting that no matter how intelligent a person can be that they can also speak out emotionally to things that were not meant to be hateful but then again I know for a fact that I can be wrong because I have seen it many times before!

Ci {normally} does not attack without thinking he has been attacked!

I would try to give each other a fresh start and see where it can lead!

What harm can it do?

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@reasoning logic,

reasoning logic wrote:

I have a question for the two of you!

I applaud your attempt at being the 'peace maker', however, what you are addressing is the 'symptom' of what is really going on. What follows is part of a post I made on 6/9/2011 in another thread where I was speaking about the process you are addressing:

dasein wrote:

No question about it being a process.

The ripening of a peach is also a process during which the peach is whole from beginning to end. However, the peach reaches 'fulfillment' at the moment it is fully ripe after which it begins to rot and then deteriorates into the earth.

Filling a glass with water is another process. The vast majority of the time 'becoming' is expressed as if it is like filling a glass with water and that there is always so much more to go until the glass is filled.

However, I see humans, 'Be'-ing, like the moon. The moon is whole even though you can only see this side of it. It is a continuous 'uncovering' or discovery.

The interesting thing about the peach and the glass is that they both have a 'stopping point'. 99.9999% of the people on the planet have chosen to be like the peach and the glass of water and have reached their 'stopping point'. They don't realize that they have concluded their discovery process. These people are the ones who have 'marked their territory' and are defending it 'to the death'.

The evidence of the 'problem' shows up in speaking with each other. If I am like the moon and 'Be'-ing the 'discovery' process and I attempt to communicate with a person who is living their life as if they have reached a 'stopping point' then the whole conversation is about the 'stopping point' and the reasons why that person stopped the discovery process.

The conversation between you and I is unusual in comparison to most of the posts on this forum. Most of the participants on this forum consider themselves to be like a peach which can ripen and then rot or a glass of water which needs to be 'filled' before it is 'whole'. They have concluded the 'discovery process' or are delaying it until the glass gets filled and haven't taken the time to notice what they have done.

All they can do is express their being right, (righteousness).

On one side of the coin I applaud 'thedoctor' for his courage to stand in the middle of the room and take on all comers. However, what he doesn't see is that he has concluded his own discovery process (come to a conclusion) and it will take more than you, me or 'CI' to move him off of that conclusion. It will take some form of 'personal crisis' to provide the motivation. A couple of other things to consider is that 1) he will never move off of that conclusion and 2) that he really doesn't need to move off of that conclusion. It IS his life.

In the other thread I mentioned I suggested to 'thedoctor' that

dasein wrote:

What you 'believe' philosophy to be is the problem and there is no "what" that makes us think the way we do.

There is only 'you' uncovering 'you' (philosophizing) or 'you' covering up 'you' by attempting to insert your 'self' into accepted philosophical concepts and justifying them through what you call 'discussion' (argument).

And

dasein wrote:

Before you can have a 'discussion', you will need to get rid of everything you think you know so you can uncover what you DO know.

I have found that only 1 person in several million has what it takes to dis-entangle themselves from the horse **** that has been thrust upon us for over 2500 years. Just about everybody in the world is defending their understanding of the horse **** and not uncovering what it is they already know. This 'thrownness' I just mentioned is part of our makeup. It will never leave you. We have to 'Be' our inauthentic 'self' to be able to choose our authentic 'self'. However, we don't have to conclude our discovery process (come to a conclusion) and stay there.

We CAN become aware of our 'thrownness' and not be a victim of it.

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@Dasein,

Thanks for sharing, you have given me something to think about.

Here is something to think about! If I am not mistaken there was a time when man did not lie nor sin but this was very long ago!

I feel very confident that this is true but I am open minded to be proven wrong.

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@reasoning logic,

reasoning logic wrote:

Here is something to think about! If I am not mistaken there was a time when man did not lie nor sin but this was very long ago!

It was a primordial thing. Heidegger calls it “resoluteness”. When the 'cover-up' began, we began covering up the phenomenon of life and the phenomenon of 'self' with the concepts of life. Our 'throwness' is to cover-up the phenomenon of life and self and it is the 'thrownness' of every human, 'Be'-ing, on the planet. That 'throwness' will stay with everybody until the moment of their demise.

To uncover who you are and remind your 'self' of what you already know, you have to disentangle your 'self' from the labyrinth of 'conceptual deception' we call the 'world'. You have to realize that you can no longer look into the world for 'meaning' and that 'meaning' comes from you 'Be'-ing who you are. Without 'you', 'Be'-ing, there is no 'meaning' or 'truth'.

After reading Being and Time by Martin Heidegger almost 74 times over the past 15 years I have reached what Heidegger calls "resoluteness". "Irresoluteness" is when you are inundated by the concepts of the world and you are unsure (confused) of the difference between who you are and the world of the 'they' you participate in. "Resoluteness" is the 'clearing' you take with you that allows you to be aware of your "thrownness" without allowing you to become irresolute.

The “sin” and the “lie” you mentioned is the cover-up.

All religion is based on the “sin” and the “lie” (the cover-up). Since the 'sin' and the 'lie' is our 'throwness' we are all 'guilty' of 'irresoluteness'. It is this 'guilt' that religion uses to hold our 'salvation' hostage.

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@Dasein,

I will be honest!
You use terms that I strive very hard to understand and I may understand some of them but I would guess that I do not understand all of them!

If it is possible for you to use terms that are more laymen I would appreciate it because I am a layman!

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@reasoning logic,

Resoluteness: A state of 'Be'-ing where you no longer have any confusion as to who you are. 'Be'-ing 'resolute' means that you have systematically resolved all of the definitions, concepts, and theories provided to you by the 'they' and the 'world' or you have (in an instant) realized that who you are is not some 'thing' that can be defined by the 'world' and the 'they'. That who you are is standing in a clearing and uncovering your 'self' and that you are no longer using the concepts of the 'they' and the 'world' to prove to the 'they' and the 'world' that you exist.

Irresoluteness: Is a state of 'Be'-ing where you are still confusing your 'self' with the definitions, concepts, and theories provided to you by the 'they' and the 'world'. You are holding on to those definitions, concepts and theories because you think the 'they' and the 'world' has something to offer you or that somehow the 'they' and the 'world' can guarantee your survival.

You haven't realized that it is you that brings 'meaning' into this world and that you won't find any 'meaning' in the 'they' or in the 'world'. Looking for 'meaning' in the 'they' and the 'world' is how you satisfy your 'curiosity' and distract your 'self' from 'Be'-ing resolute.

'Meaning' comes from your 'self'. You will only find 'meaning' by disentangling your 'self' from the labyrinth of definitions, concepts, and theories provided to you by the 'they' and the 'world'.

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@Dasein,

"To uncover who you are and remind your 'self' of what you already know, you have to disentangle your 'self' from the labyrinth of 'conceptual deception' we call the 'world'"-Dasein

Isn't Heidegger's philosophy a series of concepts, ideas, and theories that are part of the "world" that you claim others to be caught up in?
If that is the case, then you are just as caught within the world as everyone else. You are just as trapped, or immersed in the concepts that cover your being up. How could you not be?

"You are holding on to those definitions, concepts and theories because you think the 'they' and the 'world' has something to offer you or that somehow the 'they' and the 'world' can guarantee your survival"-Dasein

Do you hold onto concepts, definitions and theories? Do you not depend upon certain ideas, concepts and theories for you to be able to write anything at all? Heidegger's philosophy came from the "world", and you appear to be using it, presumably because you think that it has something to offer you.

I think have an issue with the idea that you can "disentangle" yourself from all concepts, ideas, and definitions. It doesn't make any sense. Every time communicate we tangle ourselves up in concepts, even you.

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@existential potential,

You do make good and clear points of what you are relating to. It does make it easier when we are able to use concepts that are constructed in a way that are easily understood.

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@existential potential,

ep, Excellent points; seems to be missed by many people on this board.

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what is the beggining of philosophy?

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