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IS THE "TEA PARTY" REALLY A POPULIST MOVEMENT?

 
 
msolga
 
  1  
Sun 29 Aug, 2010 09:29 pm
@failures art,
Quote:
I think this isn't anything new, it's just a very successful brand on reactionary politics. Those definitely aren't new.


Yes, I'm aware of that, art. But it seems to me (from a long way away, admittedly) that this broad "movement" is definitely gaining momentum.
It appears to be about considerable disenchantment of white, lower -middle class, religious "members". What interests me is who is speaking in their behalf , what is being said on their behalf & for what purpose.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Sun 29 Aug, 2010 09:35 pm
@Rockhead,
No bet, but I fully expect that FART is talking out of his ass again....He routinely shows that he believes what he wants to believe, that his world view is connected to reality only on occasion, and probably by accident. I will however give him every opportunity to come up with a guy who can come close to the veracity of my guy to support his assertion. I am not holding my breath.

Quote:
Kenneth P. Vogel


Kenneth P. Vogel – who goes by "Ken" when he's not in ostentatious reporter mode – tracks the confluence of money, politics and influence for POLITICO.

He has covered politics and government at all levels, from small-town cop shops and school boards to statehouses, Congress and the presidential campaign trail, traveling during the 2008 race with the campaigns of Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, Sarah Palin and Joe Biden.

Before joining POLITICO prior to its 2007 launch, Vogel reported for The News Tribune in Tacoma, Wash., The Times Leader in Wilkes-Barre, Pa., The Center for Public Integrity in Washington, D.C. and The Journal Inquirer in Manchester, Conn.

He spent most of 2006 learning about the U.S. Congress from the inside through an American Political Science Association fellowship that let him work on the staffs of two House committees. He's won awards from the Association of Capitol Reporters and Editors, the Society of Professional Journalists and Investigative Reporters and Editors.

He’s analyzed politics on CBS, CNN, Fox News, MSNBC, National Public Radio and radio and television stations around the country.

He grew up in Philadelphia and graduated from the University of Wisconsin–Madison.


http://www.politico.com/reporters/KennethPVogel.html
georgeob1
 
  0  
Sun 29 Aug, 2010 09:36 pm
@msolga,
I believe that if you would take the trouble to read Alexis de Toqueville's "Democracy in America", first published in the early 1830s, it would give you a fairly good understanding of some of the origins and historical threads that are at work here in this movement. It is a very good read on its own - the author contrasts the "top down" aspect of European (or more particularly French) governance under both the ancien regime and the French revolution with the intensely local, "bottom up" character of American governance and political views.

I'm not suggesting this encapsulates the entire character or motivation of this amorphous an not-well-organized movement (whether you regard its character as political, religious. or anything else). However, I believe it will give you an understanding of the historical roots of the public discontent with the probably benign and at least well-intended attempts of recent U.S. governments to extend modern social welfare programs and their associated controls through the country.

Many here find it easy to denigrate these longstanding aspects of American culture. Indeed some rather too serious and self preoccupied academic types have attempted serious analyses of some aspects of all this. Richard Hofstadter's "Anti Intellectualism in American Life" is a good example. Basically it all came down to his inability to accept why all those stubborn, often religious, self-centered local yokels were more content with their own local community organizations than the intellectually better models that superiuor folks like himself wished to impose on them.

In turn perhaps you can explain to me Mr Rudd's sudden fall from power and the apparent discontent of Australian voters, left and right, with recent governments.
msolga
 
  1  
Sun 29 Aug, 2010 09:41 pm
@georgeob1,
I am carefully reading what you've had to say, George. Really.

(And I honestly don't think this thread is the appropriate place to discuss Kevin Rudd's fall from power. We've been rattling on at length about this and other election issues on an Oz thread here, if you're interested. )

Edit: the purpose of my post (above) was not to denigrate US culture. You'll have to take that on good faith.

I'm actually very interested in what you & other US A2Kers have to say.
Rockhead
 
  1  
Sun 29 Aug, 2010 09:52 pm
@hawkeye10,
so it's ok then for you to talk out of your ass, since you think he might be...

Palin drew 2,973 fans to hear her speak at the arena in May when she came to town to cuddle Spirit Aerosystems and raise funds for a religious school.

by comparison, Nickelback drew 11,163 two weeks later.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Sun 29 Aug, 2010 09:56 pm
@msolga,
At least all of the names are in a language you understand. It would be so much more difficult to understand France, Italy or Germany. China? Forget it!
msolga
 
  1  
Sun 29 Aug, 2010 09:59 pm
@plainoldme,
I am hoping for some enlightenment here, POM! Smile
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Sun 29 Aug, 2010 10:01 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
However, I believe it will give you an understanding of the historical roots of the public discontent with the probably benign and at least well-intended attempts of recent U.S. governments to extend modern social welfare programs and their associated controls through the country.
I presume you mean stuff like the Feds saying that states can't have their share of Highway money unless they enact the drunk driving laws that Uncle Sam wants, and then the feds turn around with a straight face and say "we are not MAKING you do this, it is your choice.."

Bull. ****.
0 Replies
 
failures art
 
  2  
Sun 29 Aug, 2010 10:23 pm
@hawkeye10,
Hawkeye - Are you reading selectively or just not reading? This is nothing new. Ever since reports on the Tea Party funding came out last April, the organizers have had to back-off the grass roots angle. The Koch brothers have already been mentioned in this thread.

If you can't be bothered to read what has been posted before, I doubt it will sink in now.

Here is information on who is funding. I'm sure we will have this conversation again when you choose to forget this info is out there and readily available.

I don't mind you calling my hand, but you had better ante up if you're going to sit at the table. If you raise with accusations that I'm lying, you'd better be ready to back it up--you can't.

A
R
T
failures art
 
  1  
Sun 29 Aug, 2010 10:41 pm
@failures art,
From my first link, because it's so direct to the point, and I doubt you plan to read it's damning details:
The New Yorker wrote:
A Republican campaign consultant who has done research on behalf of Charles and David Koch said of the Tea Party, “The Koch brothers gave the money that founded it. It’s like they put the seeds in the ground. Then the rainstorm comes, and the frogs come out of the mud—and they’re our candidates!”


A
Rainstorms and frogs
T
failures art
 
  1  
Mon 30 Aug, 2010 11:05 am
Lots of photos from Saturday's Rallies

DCist wrote:
Based on the various reports that we've seen, and aside from a few shouting matches, Saturday's "Restoring Honor" rally appeared to go off without major incident. Though those moving into a dorm room at George Washington University while tens of thousands of Tea Partiers were plodding their way to the National Mall, could be excused if they didn't feel like things were going so smoothly. The GW Hatchet has this report about Saturday's move-in process, during which many students and parents dodged the angry mobs while shifting those steamer trunks and cheap microwaves into the dorms.

But The Hatchet's report also includes this surreal graf, which was far too odd to not share:

Though the rally was a mostly peaceful gathering, two rally attendees got into a heated argument with an employee at the GW Deli over the D.C. bag tax, which ultimately resulted in the tea party member throwing a sandwich in the deli employee's face. The GW Deli declined to comment on the issue.

C'mon, now. Who throws a sandwich?

All told, I suppose that some crowded moving conditions and a sandwich casualty are far from the worst things that could have happened with so many combustible ideologies forced into a small area.


Source: Food fight

A
R
Throwing food?
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Mon 30 Aug, 2010 01:31 pm
@failures art,
Quote:
Some of the biggest foundations behind the conservative movement — Koch and Bradley — have signaled their wariness about affiliating with the tea party, even as Koch doles out hundreds of thousands — and likely millions — of dollars to one of the main Washington nonprofit groups assisting tea partiers around the country: Americans for Prosperity, which was founded by the family’s most politically active member, David Koch.

On the eve of the April 15 Tax Day tea party rallies in Washington, a spokeswoman for the various Koch foundations and companies issued a statement distancing the Kochs from the tea parties and another major Washington-based movement organizer, FreedomWorks, which was formed after a 2003 rift within a Koch-funded predecessor group that also yielded Americans for Prosperity.

According to Koch spokeswoman Melissa Cohlmia, “no funding has been provided by Koch companies, the Koch foundations, Charles Koch or David Koch specifically to support the tea parties.”

Nor have any Koch interests contributed to Tea Party Patriots or a number of other prominent tea party groups, Cohlmia later told POLITICO.

Likewise, the president of the Lynde and Henry Bradley Foundation, which grant reports show has contributed $195,000 to Americans for Prosperity and $270,000 to FreedomWorks between the time of their split and the end of last year, said his group’s focus will remain on policy research and development, rather than grass-roots mobilization.

“We are not directly funding their tea party activities,” foundation P—resident Mike Grebe told POLITICO. “We’re funding public education programs run by Americans for Prosperity and FreedomWorks, both of which are very active in the tea party movement, but our monitoring of that would be indirectly, as opposed to having direct contacts with tea party people.”


For its part, FreedomWorks has been working for years to replace large institutional donors, primarily corporations, with a broad network of smaller grass-roots donors — an effort that got a major boost when the group emerged as a tea party leader, said its president, Matt Kibbe.
http://able2know.org/reply/post-4333710
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Mon 30 Aug, 2010 01:33 pm
@hawkeye10,
Was your intention to confirm his point?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Tue 28 Sep, 2010 10:47 am
Interesting and I think correct anylsis from Stanley Fish

Quote:
And the Democrats will be helping them by saying scathing and dismissive things about the Tea Party and its candidates. The Greek mythological figure Antaeus won victory after victory because his opponents repeatedly threw him to the ground, not realizing that it was the earth (in the figure of his mother, Gaia) that nourished him and gave him renewed strength. The Tea Party’s strength comes from the down-to-earth rhetoric it responds to and proclaims, and whenever high-brow critics heap the dirt of scorn and derision upon the party, its powers increase.

Commentators who explain smugly that O’Donnell’s position on masturbation (that it is a selfish, solitary act) is contradicted by her Ayn Rand-like attack on collectivism, or who wax self-righteous about Paladino’s comparing Sheldon Silver to Hitler and promising to wield a baseball bat in Albany, or who laugh at Sharron Angle for being in favor of Scientology (she denies it) and against fluoridation and the Department of Education, are doing these candidates a huge favor. They are saying, in effect, these people are stupid, they’re jokes; and the implication (sometimes explicitly stated) is that anyone who takes them the least bit seriously doesn’t get the joke and is stupid, too.

We the people hear this and know who is being talked about, and react with anger: “Don’t presume to tell me what to think and whom to vote for just because you have more degrees than I do. I don’t know much about these people but if you guys are against them, I’m going to give them the benefit of the doubt.”

And if they don’t exactly say that, the recently unveiled “Pledge to America” says it for them in its money quote: “An arrogant out-of-touch government of self-appointed elites make decisions, issue mandates, and enact laws without accepting or requesting the input of the many.” The many grow and become more robust every time a self-satisfied voice from the political or media establishment dumps on their spokespersons. Mayor Bloomberg may be right when he says (in explaining his endorsement of Cuomo over Paladino) that “anger is not a governing strategy,” but it sure is a campaign strategy and it is one the Tea Party and the Republicans it has tutored know how to execute.

What to do? It is easier, of course, to say what not to do, and what not to do is what Democrats and their allies are prone to do — poke gleeful fun at the lesser mortals who say and believe strange things and betray an ignorance of history.

That won’t work. Better, perhaps, to take a cue from Hercules, who figured out the source of Antaeus’s strength and defeated him by embracing him in a bear hug, lifting him up high, and preventing him from touching the ground. Don’t sling mud down in the dust where your opponents thrive. Instead, engage them as if you thought that the concerns they express (if not their forms of expression) are worthy of serious consideration, as indeed they are. Lift them up to the level of reasons and evidence and see how they fare in the rarified air of rational debate where they just might suffer the fate of Antaeus.

It’s at least worth a try, because the way things are going we may soon be looking at Senator O’Donnell, Governor Paladino and, down the road a bit, President Palin.
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/09/27/antaeus-and-the-tea-party/?hp
farmerman
 
  3  
Tue 28 Sep, 2010 11:48 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
The Tea Party’s strength comes from the down-to-earth rhetoric it responds to and proclaims, and whenever high-brow critics heap the dirt of scorn and derision upon the party, its powers increase.
Also, the funding from several sources of special interests and a central figure representing "leadership" doesnt hurt. It may be "Heaping dirt " to you, in my mind its revealing the facts. O'Donnell came out strongly AGAINST teaching evolution in public schools. I didnt think she was that dumb
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  4  
Tue 28 Sep, 2010 01:28 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
The Tea Party’s strength comes from the down-to-earth rhetoric it responds to and proclaims,

Down to earth?
You mean like ican's contract from America that claims they will cut taxes, hold spending increases to inflation and population increase but still balance the budget?
That isn't "down to earth". It's "dumb as dirt" which is something else entirely.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  0  
Tue 28 Sep, 2010 01:50 pm
I think that farmerman's chief objection to the tea party movement (or whatever you may consider it to be) is that he doesn't agree with the political agenda it voices. That of course is his right, but it doesn't make those with whom he disagrees either evil or anti populist (whatever that means).

Is moveon.org a "populist movement" ? How about code pink or any of the other organized single interest groups that populate the political scene? Was the political wave that swept Obama into the White House along with strong Dermocrat majorities in both houses of Congress a "populist movement"?

My opinion is that the main force behind the increasingly widespread opposition to incumbents in political power is the growing impression among many Americans that the political classes of both parties are at worst interested only in the furtherance of their own political careers and power, and, at the very best, chronically unable to forsee the bad side effects of the increasingly intrusive legislation they seek to pass. As a result increasing numbers of folks are looking for less of it all - less government; less legislation; less regulation of their lives; less control at the hands of others who assume they alone know what is good for them. To that extent I do believe it is a populist movement.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Tue 28 Sep, 2010 01:55 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
My opinion is that the main force behind the increasingly widespread opposition to incumbents in political power is the growing impression among many Americans that the political classes of both parties are at worst interested only in the furtherance of their own political careers and power, and, at the very best, chronically unable to forsee the bad side effects of the increasingly intrusive legislation they seek to pass
Mine is close to that. It is "what we are doing aint working, so lets do something else, anything else". Tied into this is that the elites have been discredited, they have been wrong far too often, the only conclusions that flow from this are 1) they never knew what they were talking about...we got lied too and 2) they always intended to pillage the treasury for themselves...we got lied too.

Either way, following the Elites now is the chumps choice.
djjd62
 
  1  
Tue 28 Sep, 2010 02:02 pm
@hawkeye10,
i can get behind the whole, what's happening isn't working thing, but a lot of the candidates look like complete tools, especially Palin
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Tue 28 Sep, 2010 02:21 pm
@djjd62,
Quote:
what's happening isn't working thing, but a lot of the candidates look like complete tools, especially Palin
What you read as being a tool I think a lot of us read as "immune from being subverted by the elites".

How many generations of well meaning smart people have we sent to Washington only to see them fall in line behind the Ivy league schmucks who have lead us down the primrose path? I think many of us waht people in Washington right now who have no respect for the tradition credentials of intelligence, because we no longer believe that the credentials mean anything other than showing that these people have been through a brain washing program.

Granted, it might be that the Corporate interests are funding the tea party, thanks to the current idiots sitting on SCOTUS we dont know, but the expectation is that those who go to Washington now are going to be more independent, more street smart, and have a kind of intelligence that is more useful to us right now than is degree from the right school, experience running a large organization, or a lot of years as a elected official..
 

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