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Wed 3 Dec, 2003 05:05 pm
In the last few years the word "fun" has been commonly used as an adjective as in "It was so fun". Formerly. one would have said "It was much fun" or something similar where "fun" is a noun. Is this new usage accepted by professionals? I assume that if it is not, it soon will be, but so far I have been unable to get such phraseology past my lips.
The examples given such as a fun time, a fun party, or a fun guy are forms that I have often used and give me no problem. The example I gave has "fun" standing alone, used as what in my day was called a predicate adjective.
Well, I don't accept it, and I edit as part of my job. Would that usage appear in any formal writing? I don't think so. Not if the writer (or editor) cares about how he or she sounds!
I don't know if it is a coincidence or if Yottos is toying with me, but he has a riddle titled "This is a fun riddle---" and uses the expression "It's pretty fun" in the text. Logic would have me guess he is "toying" with me, but he would have to be a very fast typist since his post has the identical sending time as mine.
I don't think being an editor is any excuse for being a language fascist. Besides, adjectives and nouns go hand in hand. Just look at some of the writings of H. P. Lovecraft or J. R. R. Tolkien, or read anything in Japanese. (Like a gazillion adjectives imported from Chinese through Korean are both adjectives and nouns.)
This is just a thing that happens to languages, they change over time. Why being conservative should make an editor more serious about his job is beyond me.
That being said, it's your own choice, obviously.
I have said for a long time that if I never hear anybody say "funner" again it will be soon enough. Yes, funner. As in, "We had a way funner time today than we did last week."
Yeesh.
p.s. yes, there is a "funnest" too...
Flyboy, The use of "fun" in your example is not standard or acceptable usage. In fact, it makes me gag.
Rounin, I've been an editor since 1967. I consider myself a good one and a conservative one. I had no idea that I was a fascist. But, hey, if the shoe fits, . . . I can't speak for all editors, so I'll speak for myself. My focus in my job is to make the ideas and language of the writer as clear and precise as possible. A good editor should leave no trace evidence. By this I mean that a good editor should make changes that seamlessly fit into the author's writing. If a writer is very informal, the editor--this editor--adjusts. However, if I saw "That is so fun" in even the most informal writing, I would change it, unless it were a quote. So there you have it. Another fascist heard from. Yup, I ended that sentence with a preposition. It's become acceptable to do that. See, even fascists keep up with changes in the language.
Maybe editors don't like the usage because it makes their writers sound illiterate. Glad to hear it's wrong, because it sure isn't pleasant.
You don't have to be a language fascist, whatever that may be, to reject "fun" as an adjective.
I hope it never becomes one, much though I enjoy slang expressions in the right context.
Where did you get that definition, Phoenix? It is very thorough!
Roberta wrote:Flyboy, The use of "fun" in your example is not standard or acceptable usage. In fact, it makes me gag.
Rounin, I've been an editor since 1967. I consider myself a good one and a conservative one. I had no idea that I was a fascist. But, hey, if the shoe fits, . . . I can't speak for all editors, so I'll speak for myself. My focus in my job is to make the ideas and language of the writer as clear and precise as possible. A good editor should leave no trace evidence. By this I mean that a good editor should make changes that seamlessly fit into the author's writing. If a writer is very informal, the editor--this editor--adjusts. However, if I saw "That is so fun" in even the most informal writing, I would change it, unless it were a quote. So there you have it. Another fascist heard from.
I agree wholeheartedly with you, Roberta. Language fascists together! Why is trying to stop English becoming the laziest and most contrived language 'fascist?' The use of 'fun' as an adjective just stems from laziness, from not being able to use 'humorous' and the like. It's sad that the accepted standard of English is coming from the bottom, rather than from the top. That's probably why hardly anyone learns acceptable grammar: 'why go through all that work when people will understand you, anyway?'
I don't mind being called a fascist (in this regard, at least) if it means adhering to some sort of standard. The question posed, Rounin, was not "What can I get away with?"; it was "Is this usage accepted by professionals?" And that's what people in this thread responded to.
I would say that fun as in 'a fun time' is a noun modifier. You can find loads of them - a forum junkie, junk food, a food buff... therefore funner and funnest don't apply. W
But what do my fellow editors think about 'That party was fun'? A postpositive adjective?
A sinister meaning of fun has crept into the advertising world - a fun size of chocolate bar. It means very small but packaged to look like the real thing and therefore more expensive than an ordinary piece of chocolate.
Yeah, a big hiss to "fun size" chocolate! Another thing they're called is "snack size," which makes the full-sized ones what -- a meal?
I don't see what's wrong with fun as an adjective. Just because it came into usage 50 years ago doesn't make it wrong - a lot of other words and usages aren't that old either.
I have no objection to "That party was fun" and no objection to "We had a fun time." Why? I don't know. Seems okay to me. What bothered me, and still bothers me, is "That was so fun." Still gagging over that one.
As for "fun size," another euphemism. Now fun means small. I guess a "really fun size" would be microscopic, or perhaps bite-sized.
I'm remembering when a Three Musketeer bar was big enough for three people. It had the indentations for easy sharing. Now it's just a name. Sigh.
Roberta, your O.K.'s and not O.K.'s are identical to mine. If you ever figure out what makes the unacceptable hair raising, please let me know.
Flyboy, That's gonna take someone far more linguistically knowledgeable than I.
Roberta, thanks for mentioning the shareable 3 Musketeers! I didn't know if I was remembering something that never existed, or not!
I suppose you could still share one with two friends... better for the waistline anyhow!
Clary wrote:But what do my fellow editors think about 'That party was fun'? A postpositive adjective?
That party was fun
That meal was good
The sky is clear
Good point. I think used like that, it is an adjective. Gosh. But I would never write "a fun party", and I cannot exactly say why. Maybe just usage.
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