failures art
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2010 05:51 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
Could it be that the games are feeding an archaic image of "masculinity" that no longer fits in with reality in 2010? Cultures change, gender roles change and expand
Gender roles neither need to expand, nor is it a given that them expanding is a good thing.

Male roles can expand too. It seems like you resist this idea just as much.

hawkeye10 wrote:

There is a whole lot of gender confusion though, as well as questioning what makes a good man and what is masculinity. We have touched on this several times in this thread, and others.

How about focusing on what makes a good person.

hawkeye10 wrote:

Women have been yelling their demands for men for some time, and I think that a lot of men have realized that what women say on the subject is often not what works with the women in their life, have come to the conclusion that either women don't know what they want or else they are not honest about it.

It's not like some feminist is going to have a baby boy then train him to be sub-servant to women. I'm positive that any person wants their child to grow and be proud independent of gender.

hawkeye10 wrote:

Considering how much the old ways are condemned by women, and how poorly doing what women say they want works, I think a lot of men are stuck trying to figure this **** out.

How about "role-liberation" and Iv'e never been left alone by a mate to figure it out on my own.

hawkeye10 wrote:

Edit: and it has to work for men as well, a good deal of what women say they want goes against how men are wired. We need to be taken as who we are as a starting point. Women owe us that much respect.

Respect in only earned. It is never owed.

A
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hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2010 05:53 pm
@DrewDad,
Quote:
I'm still baffled as to why women need to be excluded from your little gatherings in order for you to enjoy them.
Maybe your confusion stems from the fact that I never said that.

I want a mix of experiences and bonding opportunities, and I want some of them to be masculine in nature, without the women butting in and dragging it feminine...

0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  5  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2010 05:55 pm
@DrewDad,
Quote:
This isn't a general gender issue. It's a "Hawkeye has issues" issue.


Very true.

I wonder if Hawkeye ever really enjoys the company of women except for sex. He never describes women as anything except a pain in the neck.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2010 06:00 pm
@failures art,
Quote:
Male roles can expand too. It seems like you resist this idea just as much.
I have come to the conclusion that it is a bad Idea, I tried it and decided that it did not work. Maybe it works for other people but not for me, but we are all here to compare notes, and this is what I am bringing to the table.

I am not sure why you invested in this long post when I have in the past directly said that I dont agree with your theory of gender being relatively unimportant, either in reality nor as an ideal. Men and woman are very different, and I think that this is a good thing. I have zero interest in trying to rub out the differences.
failures art
 
  2  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2010 06:48 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
It's not hard to have time with just men
do you have any examples?

I'll start with a few of mine
Mens only clubs are gone, men only golf is gone, men sitting at a bar unbothered by women is gone, Women now routinely go to strip clubs...

Oh, I see. You're not talking about men going to hang out together, you're talking about gender exclusivity.

Yeah, you really can't do that anymore. Good riddance.

Men are left to settle for planning personal events and facilitating their own bonding activities, just like women. Boo hoo.

A
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hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2010 06:58 pm
@failures art,
Quote:
Oh, I see. You're not talking about men going to hang out together, you're talking about gender exclusivity
considering that I was talking about where the vibe is not pulled feminine...ya

And women should have the same kind of places if they want them.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  2  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2010 09:13 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Uh, why is it a problem if the women are hanging out?

One word: cooties.
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2010 09:25 pm
@hawkeye10,
Stop whining
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2010 09:57 pm
@plainoldme,
Quote:
Stop whining
seeking justice is a noble deed...so is seeking good functioning for the collective.
0 Replies
 
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2010 10:04 pm
@plainoldme,
Edited to say this quote is from Cyclo: (I accidentally clicked on POM's post)
Quote:
You feel perfectly willing to look down upon those who do enjoy these things, though, as if they were childish or inferior to the life you've chosen

And just to be perfectly clear - I never said those who play games are childlish or that the games are childish - that was another poster.

But what I did say, and do think, is that they have contributed to unhealthy behaviors and resulting negative health, and yes, academic issues.

I've never said, 'Stop playing games or watching porn.' I've just said exactly what you've said, 'As our culture changes, people change.'

I've spoken about the negative changes I've seen-namely sleep depirivation and obesity. Of course I'm not saying: 'the advent of video games and internet porn are wholly responsible for these problems,' but what I am saying is that 'taken in concert with other cultural shifts, I believe they play a role.'
Maybe you can fill me in on the positive changes you see brought about by this cultural shift in which developing children are spending four or five hours every day sitting in front of one sort of screen or another instead of playing outside or getting enough sleep.
Quote:
Children's Life Expectancy Being Cut Short by Obesity

Published: March 17, 2005
BOSTON, March 16

For the first time in two centuries, the current generation of children in America may have shorter life expectancies than their parents, according to a new report, which contends that the rapid rise in childhood obesity, if left unchecked, could shorten life spans by as much as five years.

The rest of the article is here:


And I've never said anything taken in moderation is bad. I'm talking about what I've seen as the tendency to get addicted to these games. And if you talk to some of these kids - they are awake all night playing them-they admit that.

And again, I care about all children. I'm not happy to see either gender suffer to the benefit of the other. But once again, reading through these posts I feel that I must have come up either at the perfect time or that I must have experienced a different reality than other people.
I've never been made to feel constrained in any way by my gender- not in terms of career choices, expressing my sexuality- I've never felt held back or held down in any way.
So I don't look at males struggling as an opportunity for females to get ahead. I see it as a societal concern- and if we can identify the factors that are contributing, maybe we can make positive changes that will benefit all children.
That's all I'm saying.

0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2010 10:12 am
@Cycloptichorn,
The difference - it is fake; it is not real. Nothing can replace the feel of the real thing - I'd rather be touched by my husband than a fake husband. I'd rather hear the birds rather than a made up version of them. I'd rather swim in the ocean than imagine it over the computer.

I prefer life than an imagine of it.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2010 10:15 am
@Linkat,
Linkat wrote:

The difference - it is fake; it is not real.


What is real? How do you tell the difference between something real, and something which is not? If there is a person controlling the other end of whatever you are interacting with - then, is it 'real?'

I understand that these are questions which seem obvious, but I assure you, they are not - and we will confront them all in the future. What we call 'reality' is just a set of data which is piped in by our organs to our brain, and we are getting better and better at replicating those data streams artificially.

This is far off-topic, though, so let's just leave it at that.

Cycloptichorn
Linkat
 
  2  
Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2010 10:16 am
@DrewDad,
[img]One word: cooties. [/img]

Now this makes more sense than anything else I've read on here.
DrewDad
 
  2  
Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2010 10:38 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:
What is real?


Morpheus wrote:
If real is what you can feel, smell, taste and see, then 'real' is simply electrical signals interpreted by your brain
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2010 11:26 am
@Linkat,
Yeah, and DrewDad's aversion to cooties is much more fun than hawkeye's whimpering and whining!
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2010 11:32 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
I have come to the conclusion that it{the expansion of man's role} is a bad Idea, I tried it and decided that it did not work


Here is where your conservatism and your authoritarianism come out. I tried it! I didn't like it! Therefore, it DOES NOT WORK!!!

Man in general and not one man in particular is the measure of all things.

When I was back home in Detroit, the left wing students envisioned a world in which men and women could work part-time at professional jobs and earn the same good living that our blue collar fathers earned with one job. Husbands and wives would share in homekeeping and childrearing.

One of the reasons why that dream did not come true is that the "establishment" would not budge on job sharing.

Just think what might have happened had they allowed us our way. The economy would have cooler and there possibly could have been a better standard of living for all.
0 Replies
 
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2010 11:56 am
is it over for us yet?


cause i'm trying to decide wether to finish cutting the grass, and any reports on our supposed demise might help me make up my mind
failures art
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2010 12:02 pm
I don't know what ads appear at the bottom of the page for you guys, but mine is an ad to "Meet real guys." Mostly pics of D-bags. LOL

A
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djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2010 12:03 pm
@failures art,
i get huggies
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2010 12:37 pm
@failures art,
I use ad block... so no ads at all for me.
0 Replies
 
 

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