Our planet is being destroyed, does anybody care?

kennethamy wrote:

Not sent to - bought from.

No. Sent to. Iran has no refining capabilities. So, they have to import what you call petrol, and we call, gas, for their transportation. They depend almost entirely on refineries abroad.

Iran has no refining capabilities.

Dave Allen, your rhetoric is so neutral and unbiased, it has come to a point where I do not even know if you're arguing anything at all. Nearly every single line is a general, homeostasis point of fact cited such that it is unclear whether you're supporting an actual position, or just playing the pacifist and destroyer of generalizations for the sake of keeping the discussion going.

No. Sent to. Iran has no refining capabilities.

That said I'm not particularly interested in the exaggerations that form part of environmentalist rhetoric though I do take it for what it is: a metaphore rather than a literal conviction. So I sympathise on that small point.

There are certainly those who do not take it as metaphor, but take it as literal. That we are literally destroying the earth.

Zetherin wrote:

There are certainly those who do not take it as metaphor, but take it as literal. That we are literally destroying the earth.

Surely you understand that they're referring to the magnitude and pervasiveness of human effects on the earth's surface.

Let me know when we are destroying the universe, or even the galaxy in which this planet resides. Or was the OP actually concerned with something other than the planet earth?

kennethamy wrote:

No. Sent to. Iran has no refining capabilities.

According to the US Energy Information Administration:

"Iran is OPEC’s second-largest producer of oil after Saudi Arabia. In 2008, Iran produced approximately 4.2 million barrels of oil per day (bbl/d) of total liquids, of which roughly 3.9 million bbl/d was crude oil, equal to about 5 percent of global production. For most of 2009, it is estimated that Iran’s crude production was approximately 3.8 million bbl/d, almost 500,000 bbl/d above Iran’s estimated 3.3 million bbl/d OPEC quota. Iran’s 2009 crude oil production capacity is estimated to be 3.9 million bbl/d."

Not bad for a country with "no refining capabilities".

Perhaps you mean the process of fractional distillation of crude into light fuel constituents such as petrol. Iran does not currently have much industry devoted to this (though its not particularly difficult tech to buy or develop) and imports some petrol. Many refineries do this, but not all.

It is still a mistake to assume they have none - that's not true - but they do import some - true.

However, the $ they spend on imports of petrol are dwarfed by the $ they make selling crude.

Even if they had no refineries they could still export crude, so I don't get your point.

Zetherin wrote:

There are certainly those who do not take it as metaphor, but take it as literal. That we are literally destroying the earth.

Surely you understand that they're referring to the magnitude and pervasiveness of human effects on the earth's surface.

But I know they produce a lot of crude oil. Who doesn't? What they do not produce is the stuff that is actually put into the fuel tank. Didn't I make that clear. Or are you intentionally ascribing to me something I never claimed was true, and indeed, disclaimed? Of course they can export crude. But they have to import petrol. The stuff people put into their cars. What is difficult about understanding that (and what has their production of crude compared with that of Saudi Arabia have to do with that?) My point is that Iranians need stuff to put into their cars so their cars can move, and they have to import that stuff. From us. And we can cut that stuff off. And if they put crude oil into their tanks the cars won't move. How can I possibly make it any clearer than that?

There are certainly those who do not take it as metaphor, but take it as literal. That we are literally destroying the earth.

our planet is being destroyed

kennethamy wrote:

But I know they produce a lot of crude oil. Who doesn't? What they do not produce is the stuff that is actually put into the fuel tank. Didn't I make that clear. Or are you intentionally ascribing to me something I never claimed was true, and indeed, disclaimed? Of course they can export crude. But they have to import petrol. The stuff people put into their cars. What is difficult about understanding that (and what has their production of crude compared with that of Saudi Arabia have to do with that?) My point is that Iranians need stuff to put into their cars so their cars can move, and they have to import that stuff. From us. And we can cut that stuff off. And if they put crude oil into their tanks the cars won't move. How can I possibly make it any clearer than that?

Let me remind you of the conversation Ken.

I said in post # 4,297,885 about the oil market keeping Tehran’s pockets full.

I did not mention petrol per se – just profits off of the oil business in general.

You responded with:

“Of course, we can reduced the benefit to Iran with tough sanctions, like reducing (or stopping) the petro being sent to them. Apparently, they are not adept at refining the raw product, so it is imported from those who are. Us. Or, of course, we can eventually bomb them.”

But that’s not correct – they do have refining capabilities and they money they make from oil vastly outweighs that they spend on petrol imports.

So your obsession with their lack of refining capabilities is Just Wrong – they have them – not all refineries are engaged in the production of light fuel. That’s not a prerequisite for being a refinery. Also some of their refineries do produce light fuel, so it’s not as if the tech’s unavailable to them should they want to increase production.

But beside’s all that - it’s irrelevant – whilst they make so many dollars from crude they don’t need to worry about importing petrol to make a net profit. So their “pockets are full” despite their relative lack of light fuel production.

Iran
Abadan Refinery (NIOC), 450,000 bbl/d (72,000 m3/d)
Arak Refinery (NIOC), 150,000 bbl/d (24,000 m3/d)
Tehran Refinery (NIOC), 225,000 bbl/d (35,800 m3/d)
Isfahan Refinery (NIOC), 265,000 bbl/d (42,100 m3/d)
Tabriz Refinery (NIOC), 112,000 bbl/d (17,800 m3/d)
Shiraz Refinery (NIOC), 40,000 bbl/d (6,400 m3/d)
Lavan Refinery (NIOC), 20,000 bbl/d (3,200 m3/d)
Bandar Abbas Refinery (NIOC), 232,000 bbl/d (36,900 m3/d)
Kermanshah refinery (NIOC),21,000 bpd

The fact remains that they depend on petrol imports. That was my point, since they cannot run their cars and trucks on either money or crude oil. If petrol were cut off their trucks and cars would soon run out of petrol. And, even if they were willing to pay for the petrol, unless they could get it from the West, they would not have it.