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Where does the delusion come from?

 
 
JTT
 
Reply Thu 15 Jul, 2010 08:25 pm
From:

http://able2know.org/topic/158681-2#post-4284769

Cycloptichorn wrote: point back to American support of terrorism


jtt wrote: Finally, an admission that you were mistaken. It would have been nice if you had been a little bit more honest about it, but hey, if that's how you want to handle it, Cy.

Cycloptichorn replied: Do you really have to be such a ******* idiot, JTT? One can only assume that you do so on purpose, it can't be random.

I do not admit that you are correct about this or anything; I only admit that you persistently try and steer all conversations around to your preferred topic. Which is extremely boring and immaterial.

=======================

I wonder how Cy, I think he purports to be an academic, can so easily dismiss what are clear fact situations.

Is,

Quote:
[When the U.S. doesn't like a government], they send the CIA in, with its resources and activists, hiring people, hiring agents, to tear apart the social and economic fabric of the country, as a technique for putting pressure on the government, hoping that they can make the government come to the U.S.'s terms, or the government will collapse altogether and they can engineer a coup d'etat, and have the thing wind up with their own choice of people in power.


not a textbook example of state terrorism. Cy claims that it is not. Well, actually, he just makes a sweeping overall statement that the US government is not a terrorist state but he refuses to discuss it any further than that.

What could possibly be a more academic approach?

Quote:
Now ripping apart the economic and social fabric of course is fairly textbook-ish. What we're talking about is going in and deliberately creating conditions where the farmer can't get his produce to market, where children can't go to school, where women are terrified inside their homes as well as outside their homes, where government administration and programs grind to a complete halt, where the hospitals are treating wounded people instead of sick people, where international capital is scared away and the country goes bankrupt. If you ask the state department today what is their official explanation of the purpose of the Contras, they say it's to attack economic targets, meaning, break up the economy of the country. Of course, they're attacking a lot more.


A lot more. I wonder what that could be?

Quote:
To destabilize Nicaragua beginning in 1981, we began funding this force of Somoza's ex-national guardsmen, calling them the contras (the counter-revolutionaries). We created this force, it did not exist until we allocated money. We've armed them, put uniforms on their backs, boots on their feet, given them camps in Honduras to live in, medical supplies, doctors, training, leadership, direction, as we've sent them in to de-stabilize Nicaragua. Under our direction they have systematically been blowing up graineries, saw mills, bridges, government offices, schools, health centers. They ambush trucks so the produce can't get to market. They raid farms and villages. The farmer has to carry a gun while he tries to plow, if he can plow at all.

If you want one example of hard proof of the CIA's involvement in this, and their approach to it, dig up `The Sabotage Manual', that they were circulating throughout Nicaragua, a comic-book type of a paper, with visual explanations of what you can do to bring a society to a halt, how you can gum up typewriters, what you can pour in a gas tank to burn up engines, what you can stuff in a sewage to stop up the sewage so it won't work, things you can do to make a society simply cease to function.


That should satisfy Ticomaya that the US government is not a government of terrorists and terrorism.

But wait, there's more. After you've destroyed the economy, after you've sown the seeds of terror in the population, what do you do to set it there, to nurture it, to provide water and nutrients so that it can grow.

Quote:
Systematically, the contras have been assassinating religious workers, teachers, health workers, elected officials, government administrators. You remember the assassination manual? that surfaced in 1984. It caused such a stir that President Reagan had to address it himself in the presidential debates with Walter Mondale. They use terror. This is a technique that they're using to traumatize the society so that it can't function.

I don't mean to abuse you with verbal violence, but you have to understand what your government and its agents are doing. They go into villages, they haul out families. With the children forced to watch they castrate the father, they peel the skin off his face, they put a grenade in his mouth and pull the pin. With the children forced to watch they gang-rape the mother, and slash her breasts off. And sometimes for variety, they make the parents watch while they do these things to the children.

This is nobody's propaganda. There have been over 100,000 American witnesses for peace who have gone down there and they have filmed and photographed and witnessed these atrocities immediately after they've happened, and documented 13,000 people killed this way, mostly women and children. These are the activities done by these contras. The contras are the people president Reagan calls `freedom fighters'. He says they're the moral equivalent of our founding fathers. And the whole world gasps at this confession of his family traditions.


Do you really find all this "extremely boring and immaterial", Cy? I'd really like to know.

All quotes from:

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Stockwell/StockwellCIA87_2.html

 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jul, 2010 08:50 pm
Quote:


Now [CIA] case officers that do these things in places in Nicaragua, they do not come back to the U.S. and click their heels and suddenly become responsible citizens. They see themselves - they have been functioning above the laws, of God, and the laws of man - they've come back to this country, and they've continued their operations as far as they can get by with them. And we have abundant documentation of that as well.

The MH-Chaos program, exposed in the late 60's and shut down, re-activated by President Reagan to a degree - we don't have the details yet - in which they were spending a billion dollars to manipulate U.S. student, and labor organizations.

The MK-ultra program. For 20 years, working through over 200 medical schools and mental hospitals, including Harvard medical school, Georgetown, some of the biggest places we've got, to experiment on American citizens with disease, and drugs.

They dragged a barge through San Francisco bay, leaking a virus, to measure this technique for crippling a city. They launched a whooping cough epidemic in a Long Island suburb, to see what it would do to the community if all the kids had whooping cough. Tough **** about the 2 or 3 with weak constitutions that might die in the process.

They put light bulbs in the subways in Manhattan, that would create vertigo - make people have double vision, so you couldn't see straight - and hid
cameras in the walls - to see what would happen at rush hour when the trains are zipping past - if everybody has vertigo and they can't see straight and they're bumping into each other.

Colonel White - oh yes, and I can't not mention the disease experimentations - the use of deadly diseases. We launched - when we were destabilizing Cuba for 7 years - we launched the swine fever epidemic, in the hog population, trying to kill out all of the pigs - a virus. We experimented in Haiti on the people with viruses.

I'm not saying, I do not have the slightest shred of evidence, that there is any truth or indication to the rumor that the CIA and its experimentations were responsible for AIDS. But we do have it documented that the CIA has been experimenting on people, with viruses. And now we have some deadly, killer viruses running around in society. And it has to make you wonder, and it has to make you worry.

Colonel White wrote from retirement - he was the man who was in charge of this macabre program - he wrote, `I toiled whole-heartedly in the vineyards because it was fun, fun fun. Where else could a red-blooded American boy lie, kill, cheat, steal, rape and pillage with the blessings of the all highest?' Now that program, the MK-ultra program, was eventually exposed by the press in 1972, investigated by the Congress, and shut down by the Congress. You can dig up the Congressional record and read it for yourself.

[same source as original posting]
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jul, 2010 08:52 pm
@JTT,
After reading this,

I think that is a good question JTT....


Where does Stockwell's delusion come from?
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Jul, 2010 10:01 pm
@parados,
Quote:
John Stockwell is the highest-ranking CIA official ever to leave the agency and go public. He ran a CIA intelligence-gathering post in Vietnam, was the task-force commander of the CIA's secret war in Angola in 1975 and 1976, and was awarded the Medal of Merit before he resigned. Stockwell's book In Search of Enemies, published by W.W. Norton 1978, is an international best-seller.


Parados, Jesus, try again. That is so lame. He just imagined it over a period of 13 years, working at the highest levels of the CIA.

Then when he submits it to the CIA, they censor the worst parts. Imagine that, the freedom loving USA censors what a fella can write. Where is that much vaunted love of the truth?

0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jul, 2010 04:05 pm
@parados,
Quote:
I think that is a good question JTT....


Where does Stockwell's delusion come from?


Parados, why would you engage in such willful deception about such serious issues? This is all part of the public record. The criminality, the brutality, the horror, the relentless destruction of innocent lives and you try to divert attention away from the facts.

That is truly despicable. You should really be ashamed of yourself.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jul, 2010 04:07 pm
@parados,
Quote:
I think that is a good question JTT....


Where does Stockwell's delusion come from?


Parados, why would you engage in such willful deception about such serious issues? This is all part of the public record. The criminality, the brutality, the horror, the relentless destruction of innocent lives and you try to divert attention away from the facts.

That is truly despicable. You should really be ashamed of yourself.

That this should come from somebody like you only makes my question,

Where does this delusion come from?

that much more in need of an answer.

0 Replies
 
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jul, 2010 04:11 pm
Where does the delusion come from?

mine comes from an overwhelming sense that i'm a really great guy
0 Replies
 
Robert Gentel
 
  3  
Reply Fri 16 Jul, 2010 04:27 pm
@JTT,
The opposition you receive often has little to do with your politics but your rude unwillingness to allow others to carry on an unrelated topic if you feel the urge to make it about your obsession.

When you want to talk about something else, something perhaps less grave a matter as your anti-US obsession, you indulge in it. You partake in discussions about other much less weighty things, like linguistic prescriptivism, but on a wide variety of unrelated threads you insist that anyone who doesn't start talking about the politics you want to talk about is ignoring injustice and you start to insult them.

It's as obnoxious as it is patently absurd. Often they are people who agree with your politics in general but just don't think that you should make every thread on earth about it (and when you aren't in the mood you'll talk about other things too). If you talk about other things why on earth do you go into these benders where you insist that everyone on unrelated topics must talk about your political obsessions?

There is a time and a place for everything, you don't need to make every thread about your own obsessions. If you want a conversation about that start a conversation about that, but don't try to turn every conversation into the one you want to have, that is obnoxious and counterproductive to the cause you so self-righteously champion.
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jul, 2010 04:29 pm
@Robert Gentel,
we have a winner, step right up and claim your prize
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jul, 2010 05:18 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Quote:
The opposition you receive often has little to do with your politics but your rude unwillingness to allow others to carry on an unrelated topic if you feel the urge to make it about your obsession.


That's a crock and you know it, Robert. If that were the case, Cycloptichorn, and a host of others, who relish setting the record straight about any number of injustices, would have addressed the issue of US terrorism.

He didn't, and not because I was rude to him, but because it is a topic that is simply not to be breached. It's so fundamentally uncomfortable to so many. Even Arella Mae, approaching honesty, was twisting and turning in every way possible to not say what she knows is the truth.

Look at the reply from Parados.

Quote:
Often they are people who agree with your politics in general but just don't think that you should make every thread on earth about it (and when you aren't in the mood you'll talk about other things too). If you talk about other things why on earth do you go into these benders where you insist that everyone on unrelated topics must talk about your political obsessions?


Again, a large exaggeration, Robert. I don't make every thread about it. Where there is a connection, I make the connection and you should address those issues at the point of origin.

There was and always is, a great deal of side chatter on every thread, but this comes up, like the "troll" issue, whenever people don't want to address an issue.

Quote:
When you want to talk about something else, something perhaps less grave a matter as your anti-US obsession, you indulge in it.


I have no anti-US obsession. You act like I'm making this stuff up. Shoot the messenger. That's always a good ploy.

I have a fundamental dislike for the brutality that has been the cause of some 6 million lives lost especially when it comes with such huge doses of hypocrisy.

I am truly perplexed by how casually people treat this.
0 Replies
 
 

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