Is There A Life After Death

LOL!!!!

We do not actually say "shrimp" z!

Just trying to save you from inadvertantly adding to the already great earthly burden of mumbo jumbo with your definitional thoughts, z!

You are so thoughtful and I appreciate it. If you do not actually
say "shrimp" what do you actually call them? All we hear in the
US of A is mumbo jumbo. If Crocodile Dundee called them
shrimp, how else will I know unless you tell me. What do I know
anyway? Remember?

We call them prawns - some things we don't know with more certainty than we don't know other things!

OK, as long as you know what you said. Your over my head with that
line even if you are located down under. I'll read it again after I get
some sleep.

Prawn huh? I have heard of them being called that somewhere. Well,
I make a really great "Shrimp Gumbo" (nothing to do with Mumbo Jumbo).
Crawfish or Crayfish the yankees call them, also known as mud bugs"
make a delicious gumbo. I'll order prawn gumbo the next time I'm in
a resturant and wait for the look on the poor waitress face.

Going to be gone for a couple of weeks. Give us all a rest.

asherman
This is the first time I have encountered you the Buddhist. I had no idea. I have greatly enjoyed your postings on here.

I've led an adventurous life. Traveled widely, read far more. Pondered without end. I've worked at everything from picking cotton to directing government organizations. I've designed and built a bridge from scratch with the help of brawny loggers, and advised NASA about metal processes to be used in the space shuttle. I have been at home on college campuses, and policing gang invested streets. I was a Beat, then a Hippy, and finally a the owner of Corazon. I was a Christian, a Mormon Priest, and finally a Buddhist for over forty years.

As many of you know, I'm a ten foot tall American patriot who supports the Constitution, the elected government, and the U.S. military. I try to write readable and interesting things for people to read, and all of my life I have made pictures. I left the monastic life for living in the mundane world, and seldom regret it. My sons are human beings, and have demonstrated the sort of discipline necessary for success in their various fields. My grandchildren are exceptional, and that isn't just a proud grandfarther talking.

In re. Free Will:

If the end is absolutely predictable, then Free Will can not exist. If "Man" is meant to "sin" and "suffer", then no amount of thinking or trying to avoid that end can be effective.

The "Ten Suggestions"? The Bible is filled with direct, unambiguous commands that, if not followed, will result in divine wrath and retribution. However, that is a different thing than Free Will. If an outside force knows and guides the course of events, then the participants (human, or otherwise) have no choice in what they do. The planets have as much free will to leave their orbits arbitrarily as the human has the ability to escape a god dominated future.

You follow the Bible? Which bible, there are many different renderings and there are vast differences in the translations. Some of the most common bibles are translations of translations. The various books were written by different people to suit their own needs and the perceived needs of their tribe and time. The description of God and God's "plan" is inconsistent from one book to another. The New testament is built upon the foundations of the Old ... "I have not come to destroy, but to fulfill". The notions about their being an eternal struggle between God and Satan, Good and Evil, is an innovative notion to Judaism, but can be found in many of the other religions of the ancient world. Almost any thing you can point to in your Bible, can be found in the so-called pagan religions that were wiped out by Christian zeal. Take what you can use, and destroy the rest ... a very Christian notion.

The Bible is like the pronouncements of a Gypsy fortuneteller. There is a text to justify any position you want to take. Each denomination interprets the texts to support their particular doctrine and dogma. You don't belong to one of the larger denominations, but you are a part of a tiny denomination who, together, decide on what your group believes the Bible to mean. My guess is that your study group has a leader, and it's a pretty good bet that the group is strongly influenced by the leader's take on things. If you abandoned all groups, would that make your understanding of the Bible any better? Would your interpretation be right, while all the worlds understanding be wrong?

If you don't believe that other religions are "mumbo-jumbo", then you are admitting that they are as valid as your own religion. If your religion is exclusive, then how can the Buddhists, Hindus, Taoist, Shaman-based religions be anything but wrong?

For the Bunny ....

You are right, I do tend to be rather fixed in my view about the nature of both mundane and Ultimate Reality. I have experienced both. I distain and detest the Abrahamic religions for their heavy handed insistence that the whole world must agree with them. On the other hand, I'm pretty tolerant of all the other religions that I've read about, or come into contact with. They may have the same "mystical" experience as any Buddhists. There are records of even some followers of Abrahm who appear to have experienced Ultimate reality ... most of those were made into martyrs by the intolerance of their own branch of the religion.

In Buddhism, you can directly experience Ultimate Reality without dying, or waiting for some future moment. "Part time" Buddhists are a bit less likely to have this experience than those whose practice is 24/7, but it is known to have happened ... many times over the past couple of thousand years.

The god of the Bible is a maggot -- and anyone worshipping that barbaric cartoon god should not be mouthing off about other gods.

Me

You must be feeling better today frank! :wink:

I'm on top of my game, Husker.

Played golf this morning. We are having a gorgeous day here in New Jersey -- and I hit the ball smartly.



Been doing more partying than usual this Christmas season -- and we have another one to go to this evening.


2003 has been a wonderful year for me.

Hope it was for you -- and for everyone else in A2K.

And of course, my best wishes that 2004 will be even better.

Asherman
The only bone of contention I ever had with you relates to politics. You consider my stance less than patriotic, I assume. But, we both want the same end result - We just follow a different path.
_______________________________________
To the topic at hand: Life after death is an incomprehensible concept. It just don't play for me at all.

Zgreatarteest

Sorry to be responding so many pages later to points you made earlier, but this is a quick moving thread. On the other hand, as you will be away for awhile, perhaps your reply will be made many pages later on, if ever.

I've known many people who share your experience of prayer. They are not all Christians. I do believe faith has restorative power, and the benefits for peace of mind -which mirror the benefits of meditation- are fairly well established.

I submit to you, however, that the success of prayer does not establish that anything outside the mind of the prayer is involved. When one is pre-disposed to expect good results, or, to interpret the results as good, God cannot fail.

Example: a busload of pious believers plunges off a cliff. All are killed.

Spin: God called them home; it was their time. (Or, if they belonged to a rival faction, He was showing them the error of their ways.)

Example #2: one manages to survive.

Spin: God was looking out for Him. God answered his prayer.

Do you honestly believe no one else on the bus was praying? I'd bet even a busload of plunging Atheists would have a handful.

The point is, whatever the result, life or death, God passes the test IF you believe in Him, IF you believe everything happens according to His plan.

But it works just as well no matter who or what you think God is, Jehovah, Allah, or a bowl of banana rice pudding. The key, as you say, is faith. Trouble is, it doesn't matter what you have faith in. Try it and see. But, remember, you have to truly believe.

You also said:



I become unglued around Aryans, Klansmen, and Pedophiles too, among others. Does that mean these are true beliefs as well?

Our life as always,
will be saved as we are prepared to lose it,
or will be lost as we try to save it.

Gee, I hope I'm not the only one that understands and
appreciates that. Thanks, husker.

zgreat.....

There are none so blind as those who think they see.

You of course are free to apply this thought to me as well.

truth
You are wise, Greyfan. Also very patient. How do you persist with Z?

Thanks. It's up to you about applying that to yourself.
Let's not forget those who really do see and are blind to what
they are looking at.

Re: truth


Nobody doesn't know?